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blacksonn



Joined: 20 Apr 2008
Posts: 2
Location: detroit

PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 9:00 pm    Post subject: ....such is life.... Reply with quote

thanx dave,i thought as much...live & learn i guess...still i can always buy the software (analogue edition 2007) & use the controller with it...i think i might contact Ebay & let them know because i saw a few software packs out there on auction now.
cheers to all
anton
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aNtOn
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MartinHines
Platinum Member


Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 2990
Location: Topeka, KS (USA)

PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 12:50 am    Post subject: Re: ....such is life.... Reply with quote

blacksonn wrote:
thanx dave,i thought as much...live & learn i guess...still i can always buy the software (analogue edition 2007) & use the controller with it...i think i might contact Ebay & let them know because i saw a few software packs out there on auction now.
cheers to all
anton


Anton,

Some companies allow software license transfers and some don't. Korg unfortunately does not.

I would always recommend checking with the manufacturer BEFORE you buy second hand to see if a license is transferrable, and to understand the process, including any fees involved (some companies that allow transfers will charge a fee). Many times the original owner has to take some action.

For example, Native Instruments allows software transfers but the original owner has to contact NI and fill out a form to have their ownership info removed from the NI registration database before the new owner can register the software.

Unfortunately, I have seen many auctions where the Seller claims "the software is easily transferred" when I know they are completely wrong or have no clue about the process.

Buying software second hand can save you money, but it is up to you to verify what the seller is claiming is correct.

Sorry you got burned.
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Teledub



Joined: 21 Apr 2008
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 8:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I hate to begin my first post in this forum with this, but here goes...
This is a horrible policy.

I own a ton of software and many virtual instruments and FX, and most if not all could be transferred to a new owner with a few emails.

That said, I have been corresponding with someone about purchasing this software. I do not think this person is a shyster, perhaps just uninformed, but he believed he could change the user info online and hand me the USB key and that would be that....

With what I've read here... I suspect that he could actually sell me the installers and the USB key and it would work. I just could not update the software. He would have to be the one to do that.

Does that sound correct? There is always a way around the system. Though by posting this here, I am inviting any loopholes to be closed. But I suspect Korg had already considered that users might do this, and accepted that fact.

Any thoughts on this would be appreciated.
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Ben Hall
Full Member


Joined: 30 Jul 2007
Posts: 167

PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 11:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I find the second-hand software business to be so riddled with gambles and traps that's it's just much less hassle to buy the software new.

After all, with most instruments being about a hundred quid, it's not exactly like back in the eighties where if you needed to do three MIDI parts you had to buy three DX7's for four grand...

The Digital Edition costs about the same as two sound cards for the M1 cost originally - and for that, you're getting all the content, *plus* basically unlimited M1's and Wavestations..!

We have it soooooooooooooooooo good, it's unbelievable.

Support the developers, pay the money to them and enable them to create new cool software.
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Teledub



Joined: 21 Apr 2008
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 5:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have to agree with you on all of your points Ben.
And in re-evaluating the purchase, a new copy of the Legacy Analog Edition is indeed a steal. Not as good as the Waldorf bundle, but still pretty darn good..

I cut my teeth on Akai S950's and Amiga 500 computers for sequencing. So I am all too aware of how good we have it these days. For the most part.

I am all for supporting developers. This is why I own all the software I do. However, the policy of one non-transferable license that you paid for is not a good one. The copy protection is good enough that theft should not be an issue. This is merely selfishness or short-sightedness on Korg's part.

ANY of those items you bought in the 80's/90's for 3-4x the cost of today's software, could've been sold without issue to another user.
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rock machine
Full Member


Joined: 01 May 2006
Posts: 100

PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 8:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, I second what you said about having it sooo good Ben. I paid $1,600 for a used M1Rack, $2,300 for a Polysix, $3,000 for a Wavestation,
$1,700 for a Wavestation rack, and the lists go on, and I can't believe what people complain about in terms of what it is they are getting for what they are receiving. If you look at something like the Virsyn Tera, you are probably getting what you would have paid $100,000 or more 25 years ago for about $350. Come on people, just pay the asking price and buy them new so that we can continue to get these fantastic products for next to nothing.
rock machine
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Teledub



Joined: 21 Apr 2008
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 8:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think the debate is about value.
It's about ownership.

People steal software (which is not what we are talking about here) because it cost's so much. Software costs so much partially because people steal it.

That aside, it should be an individual's right to sell or transfer ownership of an item they have purchased and no longer have use for. I do not see the issue here. Korg is not necessarily losing money on this. They have sold no more or less of a product if it is transferred. It just goes from someone who doesn't want it to someone who does.

I have no problem with paying full price for the Legacy Collection. But I would do it sooner if I were buying it discounted from someone who no longer wants it.
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Ben Hall
Full Member


Joined: 30 Jul 2007
Posts: 167

PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 9:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Teledub wrote:
People steal software (which is not what we are talking about here) because it cost's so much.


No, people steal software because they can, and there are no consequences for doing it.


Teledub wrote:
That aside, it should be an individual's right to sell or transfer ownership of an item they have purchased and no longer have use for.


But there is no "ownership involved". A customer does not "own" anything. They buy a license to use the software - they don't own the software. And you buy the license according to the terms of the license - if the copyright holder says they license can not be transferred, then that's how it is. You are, in a very real sense, buying the right to use the software, and you cannot impose your own terms of the license to suit you, regardless of whether you think it's fair or not.

Mostly it's because license transfers end up being a major admin headache - I know several developers and have some inside perspective on this - most small developers have too good a customer policy to disallow transfers, but it really does become a huge pain to deal with - I can understand why some impose conditions, charge fees, or disallow it completely.
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Teledub



Joined: 21 Apr 2008
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 9:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I feel at this point I should apologize for showing up, making 2 posts and stirring the pot up. Not a good a good way to introduce one's self to a forum. I appreciate the responses and spirited debate.

I don't think I've disagreed with much in this thread. I'm mostly disappointed that I thought I found a good deal, and as is usually the case, appears too good to be true.
We are however debating semantics here. I've only glanced at the sw license agreement. But I assume that you do indeed "own" the license to use the software.

I believe most large audio SW companies allow transfers. I can name one small operation off the top of my head that does for sure. I've no doubt it can be a bit of a pain. But not so much as to have a policy like this. I don't know, I don't make and sell software.

I disagree in part to the "people steal because they can" opinion. This is true for younger people, but less so for older musicians and professionals.
Not sure about your friends, but this is true for most of mine.

I stole software when I could not afford it. Now I can afford it and am happy to support the products that I love to use, but have to be thrifty about purchases like anyone else.
I was broke and used a cracked copy of Vision for years, and when it became a download for $69 I immediately paid for it. Of course Opcode immediately went out of business after that...

At any rate, clearly we have to agree to disagree on Korg's policy. I see your points, but still think it is bad customer service.
We can agree that it's a good value, and that the MS-20 rocks. I look forward to owning it.

Now if I can just figure out why this demo version of MDE-X is hanging my audio units scan when I launch Logic 8 on my Intel Mac.
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Ben Hall
Full Member


Joined: 30 Jul 2007
Posts: 167

PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 9:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Teledub wrote:
I feel at this point I should apologize for showing up, making 2 posts and stirring the pot up.


Not at all, conversations often veer off into interesting tangents. There's a global physical law of thread dynamics study somewhere, I'm sure... Wink

Teledub wrote:
I disagree in part to the "people steal because they can" opinion.


The truth is more complex of course, but if your basic theory were true (that it's because software costs too much) people wouldn't be stealing $10 software. And they do. Regularly. it's not about how much it costs, it's because it's easy.

Teledub wrote:
I believe most large audio SW companies allow transfers. I can name one small operation off the top of my head that does for sure.


Sure, some do, some don't, some have conditions or fees attached, and so on.

Teledub wrote:
At any rate, clearly we have to agree to disagree on Korg's policy. I see your points, but still think it is bad customer service.


I've never said whether I agree or disagree with the policy - I was merely commenting on the reality of it. I have to say in general, these issues rarely bother me, as I don't buy second-hand software, and have never or don't intend on selling any of my software.

But ultimately, what a company decides to do with their product is up to them, just as it is up the the prospective user to check these things out and be informed before they made the purchase, rather than afterwards - that isn't a slight on you at all, just a general observation.

What one might assume to be true isn't necessarily actually true, *especially* when it comes to legal type stuff.

Teledub wrote:
Now if I can just figure out why this demo version of MDE-X is hanging my audio units scan when I launch Logic 8 on my Intel Mac.


Works here on the same setup...
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