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Triton Extreme (and Rack) Cannot edit out tremolo from organ

 
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mfecher



Joined: 28 Jan 2019
Posts: 4

PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2019 3:43 am    Post subject: Triton Extreme (and Rack) Cannot edit out tremolo from organ Reply with quote

Newby here.
Want to get humble reed style organ sound. Started with "Reed Organ." Noticed a kind of rotor-speaker, tremolo, oscillating motion in sound. Fine for Pads and other organ sounds--not here. Cannot edit it out. Am using SoundTower's editor for big picture. Tried clarinet, oboe, etc wave forms. Turned off all LFOs. Flat lined envelopes. Not panning different oscillators criss cross. Smooth Hall Reverb the only effect. Paid $ for JustAsk technician to suggest a bad capacitor in the power supply. Both Triton Extreme and Triton Rack do same thing. Don't think both of them have same bad capacitor.
Also, this sound is affected by velocity which I don't want. Want traditional pedal volume control but static velocity response. Can't find out how to zero out velocity. Haven't spent as much time on that as the tremolo. Can anyone help me?
Thanks,
Martin
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johnxyz
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Joined: 16 Jul 2011
Posts: 122
Location: Kent, UK

PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2019 6:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You have to zero velocity by going into each page for Amp, Filter, LFO etc, and manually set any velocity tase to 0.

I would love a global or program velocity off function, but dont think its possible.

john
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mfecher



Joined: 28 Jan 2019
Posts: 4

PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2019 12:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks a lot for that answer about zeroing the velocity, John. I will work on that.

Any idea why I seem to have global motion in my sound no matter what I do?
I am striving for pure straight note. Then if I want motion of some kind like rotor/tremolo/vibrato to be able to add it a little at a time in the way I want it.

Best Regards,
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billbaker
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Joined: 31 May 2006
Posts: 2205
Location: Vienna, Virginia, USA

PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 1:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

@ mfecher -- ditto what johnxyz said.

You kind of have to look at the program level to see where modulation is built into the stock program.

One clue is that there is an AMS or alternate modulation source that says "VEL" for velocity and has a value greater than zero (it may be plus or minus) on a given parameter. I specified "VEL" because you said it gets worse as you play harder.

It could be in amp, filter, or on a panning insert effect so it may not be obvious -- you just kinda have to look.

I've done a lot of rewrites and customization of my extreme so the only 'Reed Organ' I found in mine was in the GM Section. That one has a VEL mod in the filter section. "Duh Factor" comes into play here - the GM voices are only editable if saved into a free location other than G Bank.

Good luck.

BB
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billbaker

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billbaker
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Location: Vienna, Virginia, USA

PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 1:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RE: modulation - That type of modulation is also found in slightly detuned wave forms. If your sound is dual oscillator, you might try single.

Also, if you're running in stereo look at insert and master effects to see if there is a chorus or panning effect with a VEL modulation built in.

BB
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billbaker

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mfecher



Joined: 28 Jan 2019
Posts: 4

PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 3:39 am    Post subject: modulation Reply with quote

Thanks, BB.
Yeah, I finally did get zero velocity response. I hear what you say about dual oscillators and detuning. Hope to do a serious programming session again soon and look into that and whatever else to get pure note without "oscillating."
You are right about the Reed Organ. I took that for my starting point and put it in Bank E and in my SoundTower app. So its "Reed Organ ii" now. I have tried to make the MFX and IFX nothing but Smooth Hall Reverb. Have tried to zero out panning, lfo's, flat line envelopes. Started to wonder if its where the basic samples loop? But I have trouble believing that. Yet it does look to me like there are some assumptions about what Korg calls "initialized" programs that are more than pure basic building block elements. I might go back there and start one again to see if I stumble across something.
Much obliged.
Martin
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mfecher



Joined: 28 Jan 2019
Posts: 4

PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2019 4:09 am    Post subject: oooowaaaaoooowaaaa Reply with quote

I wonder if I were to paste all my settings here if someone would take a look at them and tell me what I'm missing. If it's not a setting, then could it be hardware? Or is it intrinsic to a sample that is looped? Can there not be a smooth, straight tone with no wobble?
What I mean is; there is this oooowaaaoooowaaa that repeats in the left hand (lower notes) and in the right hand (higher notes) a faster eeeEEYAAaaEEEeeyaAA sweeping effect that happens no matter what I do and it's driving me almost forget synths and stick to "real organs" crazy. It doesn't change the pitch. It's not panning. I have turned LFO's as off as I can. It's more like a rotor speaker volume sine wave.
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billbaker
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Joined: 31 May 2006
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Location: Vienna, Virginia, USA

PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2019 1:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

martin,

Giving it some thought the fault may lie in the base organ sample that is the start point. We're assuming that the sample is a perfect wave and it isn't.

Here's why: a tone wheel organ uses a rotating wheel as part of its basic signal generation -- this is itself very much akin to a looped sample using 1940's-50's tech. A sample of a looped signal will also be a loop and subject to the flaws of the original loop... all the dirt, grit, amp noise and 'soul' inherent in even the best analog/electro-mechanical instrument as it is sampled. And a sustained sample pretty much has to loop because of memory limitations -- early 90's tech.

Triton is a ROMpler - meaning it manipulates a ROM sample by pitch and all the other variables in each patch architecture. When you pitch shift a sample, inaudible flaws are pitched into a much more audible range and can assume a rhythmic (read LFO/Vibrato/Chorus) quality. Even the room reflection can become a pitched/inharmonic or rhythmic element in a loop if raised by an octave or more.

The only sure way I know to escape that is to use a synth wave form (like a sine wave... simpler wave = cleaner loop) and then manipulate it in a manner that imitates the architecture of the Hammond or other organ you're building a Triton version of.

You need just one or two clean, simple organ patches to start. You can then try sine forms from different synth models to get slight variations in harmonic content; build your single osc versions that way.

If you like the result, try sucking in a 2nd oscillator and toy with octave separation of more than one octave, 5ths, 12ths (octave & a 5th) and experiment with relative oscillator volumes Those variations represent fairly simple 2-drawbar organ settings.

To build a fuller version stack 4 versions of your 1-osc organ in a combo, then assign them to drawbar setting:16/8/4/2/and higher harmonics. By changing the volume mix settings in combo you mimic the pull ratios for the the virtual drawbars. The combi mixer page only allows you to adjust one voice at a time, but you can save the "drawbar" mix versions that you like.

You can also use the compressor or EQ tricks in IFX section to effectively kill a voice, then assign the slider to AMS to "un-suppress" the volume. That would give you an easy real time control for one or two of the organ voices.

Bill Baker
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billbaker

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