Anyone purchased and tested the new Karo KGPs and KEPs?
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Anyone purchased and tested the new Karo KGPs and KEPs?
Anyone purchased and tested the new Karo offerings?
Re: Anyone purchased and tested the new Karo KGPs and KEPs?
Hello all,franzlp wrote:Anyone purchased and tested the new Karo offerings?
I buy the piano bundle from the karo boys and it is the best I ever heard on the planet
Korg and Karo forever
I hope Korg include in the next software update a boot up for the Karo libraries
That is my wish number one 
oasys76
I had a quick test yesterday. To be honest: right now I'm a bit confused. 
E-Pianos are excellent. Grandpianos sound very different compared to the internal Oasys-Pianos. Esp. the higher and lower notes sound more realistic. And all notes fade more natural - I suppose that's due to loopless samples.
On the other hand I had always my real Bösendorfer in my mind when I tested. It's just one level above my studio in our living room and I play it daily. This is so different that I believe no one will ever be able to copy this sound AND feeling, not even with loopless samples and 128 layers per note.
My perception of the Korg Pianos has changed too. They seem unrealistic "full" and "even" compared to Karo's. But at the same time if you play them alone (not in a mix), the middle notes seem more "playable" to me. (It's quite difficult to express these perceptions and feelings in words and I suppose there will be as many different experiences as people testing it
).
I'm quite busy for the next 2 weeks and intend to test the Sounds more deeply after that. I'll try to write a more accurate post after my second test.
EDIT: just to make that clear - I'm happy to have this collection and would buy it again. My comments refer to minor issues and some of these might root in playing too often on my real grandpiano.
E-Pianos are excellent. Grandpianos sound very different compared to the internal Oasys-Pianos. Esp. the higher and lower notes sound more realistic. And all notes fade more natural - I suppose that's due to loopless samples.
On the other hand I had always my real Bösendorfer in my mind when I tested. It's just one level above my studio in our living room and I play it daily. This is so different that I believe no one will ever be able to copy this sound AND feeling, not even with loopless samples and 128 layers per note.
My perception of the Korg Pianos has changed too. They seem unrealistic "full" and "even" compared to Karo's. But at the same time if you play them alone (not in a mix), the middle notes seem more "playable" to me. (It's quite difficult to express these perceptions and feelings in words and I suppose there will be as many different experiences as people testing it
).I'm quite busy for the next 2 weeks and intend to test the Sounds more deeply after that. I'll try to write a more accurate post after my second test.
EDIT: just to make that clear - I'm happy to have this collection and would buy it again. My comments refer to minor issues and some of these might root in playing too often on my real grandpiano.
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Kevin Nolan
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Received mine today - just installed the Bosendorfer. Immediate reaction is very positive. Like Charlie - they sound less 'in your face' than Korgs ExS2 but EXS2 is still very good and very well programmed.
You get about 10 variants of Grand Piano alone (among rock pianos and other programs..), and they reflect different brightnesses but all velocity layered – and very useful for different scenarios.
Programming is very good and even - with a realistic sound that works. I played through several full pieces :
- Debussy's "Dr. Gradus Ad Parnassum" and "The Snow is Dancing"
- Beethoven "Pathetique"
- Vangelis "Memories of Green" (Bluesey/emotive piano piece from "See You Later" and "Bladerunner" which I learnt note for note from the CD some years back).
All sounded excellent. Importantly - they COULD be played on these pianos - very often (as with my K2500XS even with K-Sounds Steinway) they cannot be played convincingly - on this Bosendorfer they can - a real delight. Memories of Green worked well; the elusive melody within The Snow is Dancing could be brought our from the ostinato and Pathetiqie could be made ot sound appropriately powerful and lyrical. This Bosendorfer did not "blow me away", but it is very, very usable and natural sounding. With further settings of reverb / EQ and so on I'm sure it could be made to sound even better.
Interesting "over stretching" control on Knob on one of the Bosendorfer grand pianos - I think no. 6. Very clever.
I suspect the stereo programming is wrong on one of them - on headphones high notes sound left and low notes right - I suspect program 3 - perhaps the programmer wore his headphones wrong way round when programming that.
However, initial and overall impression of the Bosendorfer is very positive – it’s a very useful package. Best way of expressing it - I played my Oasys like a piano for the very first time - and it felt right. It did not overwhelm me, but I think I'm going to use these pianos a lot, and start actually playing my OASYS as if a piano - a very new and refreshing feeling. It made me test my skills and the OASYS keyboard. Not sure about my skills, but the Keyboard felt good - and curiously - different, like a piano!
I think Karo have been very earnest and honest about these packages. The Bosendorfer programming is very clever. Usually different programs just sound like the same one with different EQ. This is definitely not the case here - they've changed a lot for each program and hence there are extremely useful programs for different genres and playing styles - making it a very flexible package in a range or recording and performaing scenarios.
I'm away for the next few days so it'll be next week before I try the others (I bought all the pianos so I'll provide feedback on them eventually).
Cheers,
Kevin
You get about 10 variants of Grand Piano alone (among rock pianos and other programs..), and they reflect different brightnesses but all velocity layered – and very useful for different scenarios.
Programming is very good and even - with a realistic sound that works. I played through several full pieces :
- Debussy's "Dr. Gradus Ad Parnassum" and "The Snow is Dancing"
- Beethoven "Pathetique"
- Vangelis "Memories of Green" (Bluesey/emotive piano piece from "See You Later" and "Bladerunner" which I learnt note for note from the CD some years back).
All sounded excellent. Importantly - they COULD be played on these pianos - very often (as with my K2500XS even with K-Sounds Steinway) they cannot be played convincingly - on this Bosendorfer they can - a real delight. Memories of Green worked well; the elusive melody within The Snow is Dancing could be brought our from the ostinato and Pathetiqie could be made ot sound appropriately powerful and lyrical. This Bosendorfer did not "blow me away", but it is very, very usable and natural sounding. With further settings of reverb / EQ and so on I'm sure it could be made to sound even better.
Interesting "over stretching" control on Knob on one of the Bosendorfer grand pianos - I think no. 6. Very clever.
I suspect the stereo programming is wrong on one of them - on headphones high notes sound left and low notes right - I suspect program 3 - perhaps the programmer wore his headphones wrong way round when programming that.
However, initial and overall impression of the Bosendorfer is very positive – it’s a very useful package. Best way of expressing it - I played my Oasys like a piano for the very first time - and it felt right. It did not overwhelm me, but I think I'm going to use these pianos a lot, and start actually playing my OASYS as if a piano - a very new and refreshing feeling. It made me test my skills and the OASYS keyboard. Not sure about my skills, but the Keyboard felt good - and curiously - different, like a piano!
I think Karo have been very earnest and honest about these packages. The Bosendorfer programming is very clever. Usually different programs just sound like the same one with different EQ. This is definitely not the case here - they've changed a lot for each program and hence there are extremely useful programs for different genres and playing styles - making it a very flexible package in a range or recording and performaing scenarios.
I'm away for the next few days so it'll be next week before I try the others (I bought all the pianos so I'll provide feedback on them eventually).
Cheers,
Kevin
Good description, Kevin. 
You're native-speaker and I like the phrases you chose. "Less in your face" and "honest" describe this library very well. That's what I ment with "Korg sounds unrealistic full and even". However one is used to this "in your face" sound and that might be the reason why I called Korg "more playable in the middle layers". I like your idea of "Playing the Oasys like a piano" - that must be the key to authentic sound. I feel like a dumb sheep now ... ... one must achieve better results if you think "play it like a piano" instead of thinking "how does this sample library compare to my real piano". 
I just want to add, that I stumbled over the wrong stereo-programming too. I'm not sure how many of the piano programs have it. But at least one does - I think there are more than one.
I've talked to Karo about this and some other issues mentioned above and I understood they might deliver a PCG-update which reminded me of their great service after releasing their string-library with free updates soon after the first release and feedbacks. It's great having people listening to customers feedback!
You're native-speaker and I like the phrases you chose. "Less in your face" and "honest" describe this library very well. That's what I ment with "Korg sounds unrealistic full and even". However one is used to this "in your face" sound and that might be the reason why I called Korg "more playable in the middle layers". I like your idea of "Playing the Oasys like a piano" - that must be the key to authentic sound. I feel like a dumb sheep now ...
... one must achieve better results if you think "play it like a piano" instead of thinking "how does this sample library compare to my real piano". I just want to add, that I stumbled over the wrong stereo-programming too. I'm not sure how many of the piano programs have it. But at least one does - I think there are more than one.
I've talked to Karo about this and some other issues mentioned above and I understood they might deliver a PCG-update which reminded me of their great service after releasing their string-library with free updates soon after the first release and feedbacks. It's great having people listening to customers feedback!
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Kevin Nolan
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Well I know this is slightly off topic - and Karo won't be too happy with me saying this, but I also bought their Philharmonic Strings this week, and I found it quite disappointing. I say this honestly. While the basic samples are excellent; the programs provided are not, IMO, good. The velocity settings are far from convincing; and there are no solo instruments provided. I don't want ot be too harsh; as some of the sampled synthesis string machines and the provided string/pad programs later int he bank are simple awsome - but the basic orchestral strings programs are, IMO, far off the mark.
In fact, the in-built OASYS string programs are vastly superior, and I now realise just what an exquisite job Korg did on their Strings in the basic HD and EXS1 sample sets and their associated programs - the internal ones are now, objectively, stunning.
I had hoped for better programs in KPS; but they aren't great at all. That package arrived earlier than the KGP/KEP packages and I was honestly worried for the quality of the pianos - but thankfully the KGP Bosendorfer programs are fantastic, and IMO, on a different level altogehter form their Philharmonic Strings programs. I realise this is my opinion only, but I have to be honest; and also indicate that I'm not praising Karo by default - while their Strings need more work IMO, their Bosendorfer is really, realy good.
Kevin.
In fact, the in-built OASYS string programs are vastly superior, and I now realise just what an exquisite job Korg did on their Strings in the basic HD and EXS1 sample sets and their associated programs - the internal ones are now, objectively, stunning.
I had hoped for better programs in KPS; but they aren't great at all. That package arrived earlier than the KGP/KEP packages and I was honestly worried for the quality of the pianos - but thankfully the KGP Bosendorfer programs are fantastic, and IMO, on a different level altogehter form their Philharmonic Strings programs. I realise this is my opinion only, but I have to be honest; and also indicate that I'm not praising Karo by default - while their Strings need more work IMO, their Bosendorfer is really, realy good.
Kevin.
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Kevin Nolan
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Charlie -
Try this out - Go to Program 1, and set the Bass EQ to ~+5 dB; and the mid EQ to 420Hz with ~-5dB; leaving the Hi EQ as is.
The Bosendorfer sounds, IMO, stunning with this EQ - suddenly the over brightness in octaves 2-3 is reduced, the bass has a little more strenght, suddenly there is a new breadth and depth to it and boy does this sound like a Bosendorfer. Absolutely magnificant. There's massive potential in this piano.
Kevin.
Try this out - Go to Program 1, and set the Bass EQ to ~+5 dB; and the mid EQ to 420Hz with ~-5dB; leaving the Hi EQ as is.
The Bosendorfer sounds, IMO, stunning with this EQ - suddenly the over brightness in octaves 2-3 is reduced, the bass has a little more strenght, suddenly there is a new breadth and depth to it and boy does this sound like a Bosendorfer. Absolutely magnificant. There's massive potential in this piano.
Kevin.
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Kevin Nolan
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Hi Drunky -
I'm routing the OASYS analogue ouputs to a Yamaha 01V96 digital mixer; and appliying a little light reverb from it, no EQ from mixer. I'm monitoring over HD650 Headphones and Byer Dynamic passive nearfield monitors through a Quad studio amp.
Through headphones and monitors the Boserdorfer sounds excellent - really beautiful. Through headphones my levels are low ot medium volume to give a bit of space for the sound.
I highly recommend this piano after a few hours of playing - it is very good indeed. If you purchase onmy recommendation, I hope I'm not misleading you - but to my ears it is very refreshing, very natural and with a bit of OASYS EQ, very expressive and with breath and depth.
Kevin.
I'm routing the OASYS analogue ouputs to a Yamaha 01V96 digital mixer; and appliying a little light reverb from it, no EQ from mixer. I'm monitoring over HD650 Headphones and Byer Dynamic passive nearfield monitors through a Quad studio amp.
Through headphones and monitors the Boserdorfer sounds excellent - really beautiful. Through headphones my levels are low ot medium volume to give a bit of space for the sound.
I highly recommend this piano after a few hours of playing - it is very good indeed. If you purchase onmy recommendation, I hope I'm not misleading you - but to my ears it is very refreshing, very natural and with a bit of OASYS EQ, very expressive and with breath and depth.
Kevin.
Thank you Kevin
I would like to start buying one of the Grand Piano samples and I'm not 'able' to decide which one...! My choice is between no. I and no. II. Now you and Charlie 'move' me towards no. II. Is that right?
Don't misunderstand me you are not responsible for my choice! It's your feelings that for me is important. I prefer piano 'warm' and the real Bosendorfer for sure it is
Thanks
Drunky
I would like to start buying one of the Grand Piano samples and I'm not 'able' to decide which one...! My choice is between no. I and no. II. Now you and Charlie 'move' me towards no. II. Is that right?
Don't misunderstand me you are not responsible for my choice! It's your feelings that for me is important. I prefer piano 'warm' and the real Bosendorfer for sure it is
Thanks
Drunky
Kronos2-73 no.201556
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Kevin Nolan
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- Posts: 2524
- Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2005 3:08 pm
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Hi Drunky -
I was in Dublin this morning and in Paris now!!
So it'll be next week before I test the rest of the pianos (nearly missed my flight today enjoying the Bosendorfer so much).
It'll be very difficult to give you any sort of objective idea of the pianos. I'll try to record a piece or two on different pianos but I'm up to my tonsils so it could be a week or more before I get around to that.
I would suggest this in the mean time - don't eat for a few days and buy both! I regularly do that - buy the equipment as money arrives, and make do with little else for the rest of the month. It's amazing what you can do with an egg!
Actually - I think you should ask this question - what are the well known differences among the various makes of piano, and decide that way. I'd say these pianos are all sampled to the same superlative standard, so that they'll actually sound like their name's sake. Hence your choice based on the make should be valid. Steinway is the defacto standard, Bosendorfer is the power house, and so on...
In terms of standard , this Bosendorfer is to me genuinely fabulous. I really mean it. It's not absolutely perfect, but it is very good for a sampled piano. With the little eq applied today, I was playing for hours - from what I know of Bosendorfer recordings, it actually sounds like one. As with the release of LAC-1 and MOD-7 where the OASYS felt somehow different all over again; that genuinely happened today with the Bosendorfer. I love it. It's not all things to all people. There are probably better dedicated packages and so on; but the character and sampling of this piano is - natural. That's a term overused but it applies to this piano for sure.
But if the others are equally well sampled, you can't go wrong. Your safest bet is the Steinway because it's the sound most ears are familiar with - so if you're only going for one, it's probably the one to go for. But seriously - whatever one you get now, you will want to get the others soon after. I took the plunge and just bought all of them (on my credit card!) but I can't wait to try the others.
I like EXs2 a lot and Korg's programming is exquisite - but by comparison EXs2 is a little TOO well programmed; if that makes sense. This Bosendorfer is just wonderful, it feels lovely to play; and there's every reason to believe the others are equal in quality and character. A serious addition to OASYS IMO.
Will try ot get more info your way over the coming week.
Kevin.
I was in Dublin this morning and in Paris now!!
So it'll be next week before I test the rest of the pianos (nearly missed my flight today enjoying the Bosendorfer so much).
It'll be very difficult to give you any sort of objective idea of the pianos. I'll try to record a piece or two on different pianos but I'm up to my tonsils so it could be a week or more before I get around to that.
I would suggest this in the mean time - don't eat for a few days and buy both! I regularly do that - buy the equipment as money arrives, and make do with little else for the rest of the month. It's amazing what you can do with an egg!
Actually - I think you should ask this question - what are the well known differences among the various makes of piano, and decide that way. I'd say these pianos are all sampled to the same superlative standard, so that they'll actually sound like their name's sake. Hence your choice based on the make should be valid. Steinway is the defacto standard, Bosendorfer is the power house, and so on...
In terms of standard , this Bosendorfer is to me genuinely fabulous. I really mean it. It's not absolutely perfect, but it is very good for a sampled piano. With the little eq applied today, I was playing for hours - from what I know of Bosendorfer recordings, it actually sounds like one. As with the release of LAC-1 and MOD-7 where the OASYS felt somehow different all over again; that genuinely happened today with the Bosendorfer. I love it. It's not all things to all people. There are probably better dedicated packages and so on; but the character and sampling of this piano is - natural. That's a term overused but it applies to this piano for sure.
But if the others are equally well sampled, you can't go wrong. Your safest bet is the Steinway because it's the sound most ears are familiar with - so if you're only going for one, it's probably the one to go for. But seriously - whatever one you get now, you will want to get the others soon after. I took the plunge and just bought all of them (on my credit card!) but I can't wait to try the others.
I like EXs2 a lot and Korg's programming is exquisite - but by comparison EXs2 is a little TOO well programmed; if that makes sense. This Bosendorfer is just wonderful, it feels lovely to play; and there's every reason to believe the others are equal in quality and character. A serious addition to OASYS IMO.
Will try ot get more info your way over the coming week.
Kevin.
Dear Kevin,
I really appreciate your post
That's the solution! I will do in that way and buy both.
Thanks
Drunky
I really appreciate your post
I would suggest this in the mean time - don't eat for a few days and buy both! I regularly do that - buy the equipment as money arrives, and make do with little else for the rest of the month. It's amazing what you can do with an egg!
That's the solution! I will do in that way and buy both.
Thanks
Drunky
Kronos2-73 no.201556