Namm 2009 and Oasys

[MrT-Man]

Could you imagine the repercussions of them introducing the Oasys MK2 with a better spec at a lower price??doubt it,that would simply be a very stupid financial descision,and I suspect most of us O mk1 owners would take a long hard look at how we got screwed the first time around (...)

That's how technology works! For example, people don't say that they'll never buy a Mac or PC again, because Apple/Dell/HP/etc happen to release better/cheaper models a few months later.

But it *is* a smart business decision to offer some type of backwards-compatibility -- it keeps customers happy & it provides a way to get another few hundred $$ from us. If/when Korg comes out with an Oasys II, it'd be a great idea (to the extent the original Oasys hardware can support it) to make some of the newer EXi, sample libraries etc that would come out compatible for those of us with older hardware... & there's no reason to think that they wouldn't be able to do this.

[curvebender]

If people knew what KORG's intentions where, I'm convinced that the OASYS would be far more popular that it is right now because people would feel more at easy spending that kind of money.

Yes, exactly my thoughts.

I mean, I understand and respect the principle of secrecy in a competitive business. It's also a good idea not to announce software updates before it's 100% ready, because all sorts of problems can crop up, and then people will be angry because it's not ready in time, and so on.

But what is stopping Korg USA from communicating to us, from time to time, that they're still "working on it"?. I mean, it's so simple, and it makes us all fell a lot better about the great O.

But then again, I'm not sure that Korg Japan read these forums. After all, they're in charge, right?..

Maybe we've grown used to a certain kind of company policy that isn't appreciated in Japan?..

Also: is there a japanese forum for Korg products? It would be interesting to read (after translation of course, as my japanese isn't what it used to be..) what fellow Oasysans in Japan feel about all this.

[MrT-Man]

There has been a tremendous amount of angry discussions and, not least, false rumours about the demise of the Oasys that probably hurt Oasys sales and Korgs credibility

+1

Which is why I """"strongly"""" think KORG are doing themselves far more damage than good by maintaining the standard company policy of not talking about future developments when the OASYS project is concerned. It works for closed workstations, but it's killing the OASYS.

I do agree with Sharp. There's reasons for secrecy, but you'd think there could be a happy middle ground -- where potential customers could be assured that they're not buying a discontinued product, & existing customers could be assured that active development is continuing, without forcing Korg to say anything that would tip off the competition or cause them any significant business issues. The status quo can't be helping sales. (though I do think people posting here & on the karma forums can often be too harsh -- if I didn't own an Oasys and was going off of the messages posted here alone, I'd get the impression that it must be a horrible product based on all the angry users).

I would have to think that Dan fully understands all this -- my guess is that the secrecy policy originates from head office in Japan, maybe it's a Japanese business culture thing. (edit: I see curvebender made the same point!)

Anyway, Dan's hint & the fact that the Oasys remains prominent on the newly-relaunched Korg website give me all the comfort I need for now that the platform is still very much alive.

[Daz]

I have a lot of sympathy for Korg; I am sure these can't be easy times and it is probably a challenge to balance want they to do with what they must do to survive. Not fun.

That being said, I feel similarly to Sharp, Curve et al.

Daz.

[Kontrol49]

Hi all,

...and, we're still working. As usual, I can't say any more at this time.

- Dan

This is the type of sketchy reply that has caused much of the sorrow of owners,We already know what the Oasys has received since it conception,and we're greatful for these.its kind of becoming a little tired in terms of telling us what we already know.

We're all aware that your bound to a vow of silence regarding developments Instead of telling us your still working,wouldn't it be more courteous to tell that,"Yes there is still more to come",this would kick more of peoples doubts/woes into touch.

"We're still working" is a get out clause type of reply kind to most it would imply that you have developments in the process but thats all,there's no reassurance that these will see the light of Day,it is as Sharp and many others have said this uncertainty has created a lot of anymosity towards the Korg Oasys and thats from those that have spent a lot of money on Korg the biggest compliment they could ever do by buying such an expensive Machine.

Even a few added Exf now and then would be welcomed,I don't think anyones expecting you to release the ultimate Oasys update to end all updates,nor is anyone after a once a month development but a few carrots on a string now and then to at least reassure things are still being done.

A large part of the problem is that lower end machines seem to be more supported,ok they don't perhaps take so much time to code,but with every update to those lower end machines it puts doubts into the Oasys's future.I wonder how many Owners cast their machine aside as they saw it as an expensive paperweight,after a few hours use,when the competition around it began to excel,the Oasys is a wonderful development in workstation history but with every month that passes the only thing where the Oasys still shines out from the Hardware Workstation concept and competition nowadays is the sound Quality.

[Kevin Nolan]

I understand your point completely - except aren’t you being a bit disingenuous to the capabilities of OASYS at the end of your post – I’d suggest that even 4 years later it’s a gargantuan beast of an instrument in a multitude of ways.

I also think many of us are debating across purposes with one another with regard to Korg and OASYS – some want updated features, new sounds and so on; while others (like me) want to be sure that the overall concept of OASYS lives on – even if slowly – but for the long term, which is in my view far more important given the precarious future for the hardware synthesizer and the excellent work put into OASYS to date. So on those grounds I’m OK with Dan’s statement. I’m in no hurry!!

For OASYS to disappear would be a real worry – it’s happened too often in the past with many past great synthesizers abandoned and with the overall impact being slower progress in synthesizer development for players than otherwise could (and should) have been the case over the past 20 years . It’s that that worried me in particular in recent days and I feel that Dan has posted here to indicate that something is in the pipeline and that the concept is not dead, for now.

But I agree with you in that it’s frustrating that Korg have become so cautious in their statements, but of course we all know that’s rooted in economics, competitiveness with the other manufacturers and so on.

Personally - I’m just ‘coming round’ today from the shock ‘knockout punch’ of hearing of the release of Karma 2.5 for OpenLabs exclusively and which I do believe OASYS could accommodate – MIDI processing is relatively lightweight – and although the new features would be welcome but not crucial at this stage, the real and continuing concern to me is that Karma development for OASYS is over. As indicated elsewhere – I can only see Karma becoming mind-bogglingly powerful as Stephen Kay himself comes to terms with his technology and over the years provides more streamlined access to the truly awesome inner complexity of Karma. So that’s still a big concern. The best case scenario here is part of his limited resources being provided for an OASYS upgrade – so there’s a true and lasting shift of priorities in this regard.

Nevertheless, surely Dan’s indication of future development provides at least some grounds for optimism?

Kevin.

[vEddY]

Which is why I """"strongly"""" think KORG are doing themselves far more damage than good by maintaining the standard company policy of not talking about future developments when the OASYS project is concerned. It works for closed workstations, but it's killing the OASYS.
This has been a problem with the OASYS since day one mostly because KORG burned their bridges with the OASYS PCI and not writing XP Drivers. This was also a major player in countless arguments I've seen online that where eventually directed at the OASYS of today. If people knew what KORG's intentions where, I'm convinced that the OASYS would be far more popular that it is right now because people would feel more at easy spending that kind of money.

As always, +1.

About OASYS PCI... I seem to remember that I actually bought that card from you for a very fair price a cpl of years ago It's amazing. And I absolutely hate having to have a separate computer for it.

[robkeith]

Dan,

its time to put up........... Dangling the carrott has gone on far too long. I love the big O, but as discussed the speculation has and will continue to hurt the resale value of the O.

We all paid big bucks for this board, and the undeniable promises that Korg made through thier publicity and resellers of the "board to end all boards" and "Open Architecture" implying only upgrades are required",,, no mention of "well you pay the bucks be the ginea pigs, and we replace it within 5 years, and lets think about it 5 years!!!!!...

I love the development of the the add ons and the upgrades so far, and I appreciate what you have done, but come on 5 years?????, allthough its not like cars, its tant amount to ford saying, this is the car to end all cars, and at least GM took back the electric cars in the end and quashed the cost to the owners. You Korg implied it, I didn't. And I purchased on that promise.

How can anouncements upset anyone, "hey we have got xyz comming, that can only benefit more sales and add value" and dont say you would be giving the opposition fodder, we are the owners and purchasers of the Oasys, we are entitled to feel we are better than that.

I really hope there is going to be a huge re think on what has not happened so far, I am, like many of us, and I expect the silent majority, not happy with the events so far at NAMM, once again the implied comments from Korg "working on something" "Anouncements at NAMM 09" "Something brewing and exciting" or words to that effect, and we have all read them, and waited patiently for more than enough time.

This may indeed be the end of the O (I Hope and Pray not" but if it is finished, as far as i'm concerned it will be the end of future sales to me of Korg products, and I dont care how good they are.

[vEddY]

I understand your point completely - except aren’t you being a bit disingenuous to the capabilities of OASYS at the end of your post – I’d suggest that even 4 years later it’s a gargantuan beast of an instrument in a multitude of ways.
Kevin.

You know what the most frustrating part for me is? Sequencer, piano roll and PPQ-thing vs the M3. It's been debated a million of times, but to have almost a same sequencer since the Trinity days... that's really crazy. And I'm not talking about a piece of code that's "on its own", it's definitely useable on future products. M3 has two of those things - piano roll and more PPQ. And I gotta tell you, from time to time, it's necessary, especially for Karma-generated sounds.

I just can't, for the life of me - get why Korg (Japan) has been refusing to overhaul that part of their keyboards. It would do good for Korg, too, it's not just the selfish wish of some couple of thowsand people who happened to have the fortune (both life-fortune and money-fortune) to be "alive at the time of the OASYS". For me it's a matter of future prospects and developments of other products, as well. I don't think that I will ever sell the OASYS. But at the same time, there ain't no way I'm buying another high-end workstation until some of my criteria is met at launch date.

Now, in all honesty, I admit that I just sort of told the internal SEQ to "go f**k itself to hell and back" and went with Cubase first (or should I say - back to Cubase, which I haven't used since after-Trinity-to-Triton_Studio days), and now I'm switching to Logic. And I freely admit that Trinity, although sluggish in terms of LCD, completely spoiled me by giving me an opportunity to use a seq within the keyboard itself. Like Sharp mentioned, I think I've abused that thing to such extent that the whole keyboard wanted to cry and run away from me screaming. Right now I'm very happy with using the TR-Rack and using all of those superb sounds that it can produce. And don't even get me started on the OASYS. It just sounds gr8. And always will.

[Dany]

Dear Dan Phillips from KORG

Thank you very much for your comments. I wish to the whole KORG engineering team good luck and staying power for the future developments for our beloved OASYS.
But KORG should reconsider their whole puplic relations politics. The times have changed....and yes KORG, yes you can...!!!!

All the best, Dany (Zürich, Switzerland)

[Kontrol49]

Judging by some of the replies,I guess its getting back to that old chestnut of the Sequencer or lack of movement to its functions since the 90s Trinity days,I must admit this is my biggest issue with the machine,you see I want the Oasys to be the central part of my setup and in terms of sounds it is,and its my main keybed that I use to play my synths and Modules,but sadly via an external sequencing device.

I would love for it to be a place where I sequence everything from it,and have it as a central hub,rather than partly central for it sounds,I love the machine to death but sometimes look at it as rather over the top expensive sound module,with a few Controls and a keybed bolted on,I would have liked to have seen or maybe in the future see a Rack version,I no longer needed my Triton and Trinity Keyboards as I wasn't sequencing on them any longer so sold them in favour for the Rack modules to free up some space,The screen on the Oasys is so inviting I'd love nothing more than to sequence from it,it just doesn't fit with my workflow or needs though..

Those of us who have evolved from the Trinity days,know that its useable and user friendly but I suspect that many of us have also evolved through software developments and now expect a higher degree of usability and a list of typical tools associated with workstation or DAW environments that just make things so much more easier and pleasant to write music than trying to sequence for the sake of it on the Oasys because its there

There are a lot of hardware sequencers,and some other workstations which sometimes leave me feeling a little deflated about the Seq on the Oasys,

Is it wrong to feel dissapointed?or taboo to complain about it,because of what it has to offer otherwise,Or is it that we just want the Oasys to be the leader in what seems to be a prime position in workstation evolution

I just wonder what was the research into the Oasys sequencer and why it was less advanced in terms of Triton/Trinity,and howcome some of the Triton features were left out.and given the generation of sequencing tools that were apparent prior to its release,or did they simply only look at its sound Quality and sound engines,if this is the case will there be a kind of back catalogue of some of the older generation of Synths I'd most certainly be interested in some Trinity/Triton/01w/M1 EXi's,I'd be more than happy to pay for these,cos I could sell on my Keyboards and modules

[danatkorg]

This has been a problem with the OASYS since day one mostly because KORG burned their bridges with the OASYS PCI and not writing XP Drivers.

The majority of OASYS PCI cards were sold below our cost, and before XP was a viable platform for audio and MIDI. This issue has been gone over many times, and is a major source of grief for me. I don't think that this affected the OASYS sales, though it did certainly serve as ammunition for the handful of disaffected internet trolls who roamed around spewing anti-OASYS venom (along with general misanthropic and sophomoric nonsense). These were obviously not people who would have bought the OASYS in the first place. I think you may remember some of your own dealings with them!

[Sharp]

Hi Dan.

Yeah, all that clocked up quite a lot of hours moderating and it was by far the worst level of trolling I've ever seen to date. Very dark days.

The majority of OASYS PCI cards were sold below our cost, and before XP was a viable platform for audio and MIDI

Which did KORG more damage than good again because of a company policy that simply does not work for open systems like OASYS. A closed system like the M3 or a Triton is what it is when you buy it, and other than bug fixes the end user expects nothing more. So no problem here, and the company policy works just fine.


OASYS on the other hand is an open system and KORG advertise it as such. KORG also talk of the ability to add new engines, effects, and whatever, but the one thing that kills the idea dead in the water is KORG company policy then forbids KORG from actually making a single commitment to the end user who is now expected to buy a premium priced workstation based on only an idea with not so much as a single promise.

That to me is insane and I can't stress how wrong of a business model that is to an open system like the OASYS. KORG are trying to do business as normal here, but they are not looking at the fact that they have just developed the worlds most powerful workstation that does not apply to any rules their other products apply to.

You know me Dan, I love the company and it's even my dream to work for you guys. So my heart is in the right place here as a musician, end user and someone who wants to see KORG be the best they can.

I can only hope the decision is made that regarding open ended products that KORG realise that normal company policy cannot apply.

Kind Regards.
Sharp.

[Charlie]

Am I blind ... or is there really nothing new from Korg at NAMM 09? I couldn't find any product-specific NAMM-News at Korg.com. Korg.de offers a pink Kaossilator, M50 with 73 keys, a Nano-Bag etc. as NAMM-News ... hm

[Daz]

They announced plenty of new stuff through out the year, that's fine. But not announcing something to counter the strong impression that the Oasys was discontinued in the summer was something I don't fully understand. The Sweetwater catalog isn't subject to a secrecy policy and nor is it the rantings of some over enthusiastic users

Daz.