PCG requested

michelkeijzers · Post by **michelkeijzers** » Tue Jun 14, 2011 4:38 pm

For creating an application to show which programs are used by which combis I need to have a special PCG (to find the locations).

Could somebody provide me a (n almost) default (full) PCG and that same PCG but with one specified combi (e.g. D96 which is normally empty) made up with the following programs (in that order):
0: A007
1: A017
2: B027
3: C037
4: D047
5: E057
6: F067
7: UA077
8: UB087
9: UC097
10: UD107
11: UE117
12: UF127
13: GM127

In this case I can make a (simple) computer program that shows:

Code: Select all

Program Used in combis
====== ===============
A000      . . .
A007     D96 . . .
...
A017     D96 . . .
...


Combi Used programs
===== =============
 A000  . . .
 A001  . . .
 D096  A7 A17 B27 C37 D47 E57 F67 UA77 UB87 UC97 UD107 . . .

aron · Post by **aron** » Tue Jun 14, 2011 7:29 pm

Use sysex. Get a sysex dump of the combis and then you can obtain the locations of the programs.

I used to be an expert on this..... it's been decades now

michelkeijzers · Post by **michelkeijzers** » Tue Jun 14, 2011 10:21 pm

Sysex involves much more work ... with a PCG it's much more simpler.
Besides, sysex is much slower and for the table I need to have ALL PCG data anyway.

michelkeijzers · Post by **michelkeijzers** » Wed Jun 15, 2011 9:01 am

I guess the current Kronos owners will be busy too much with playing and discovering their beautiful new synth which is understandable.

Maybe I should try to ask again in a few weeks from now

There's no hurry anyway, I haven't ordered my Kronos anyway but I guessed it would be helpful for others too.

cynkh · Post by **cynkh** » Wed Jun 15, 2011 1:10 pm

I'd be happy to provide when I'm back around the Kronos. Unfortunately, work calls.
I'm similarly working on a proggie but I'm trying to convert (or emulate) as many different synth engines as I can with MS-20, PolySix and AL-1 (working on porting my JP-8000/8080, SH-32 and Virus Classic patches first). I'll need to also have a pretty solid understanding of the .pcg et al file formats.

Cheers!

michelkeijzers · Post by **michelkeijzers** » Wed Jun 15, 2011 1:15 pm

cynkh wrote:I'd be happy to provide when I'm back around the Kronos. Unfortunately, work calls.
I'm similarly working on a proggie but I'm trying to convert (or emulate) as many different synth engines as I can with MS-20, PolySix and AL-1 (working on porting my JP-8000/8080, SH-32 and Virus Classic patches first). I'll need to also have a pretty solid understanding of the .pcg et al file formats.

Cheers!

There is no hurry at all ...
Just for curiousity: what do you mean with convert/emulate synth engines? You mean to automatically generate the P(CG) for those programs? This can be quite tricky tough.

I can provide you with the findings I need (but I don't need that much info from the PCG, only the reference numbers from all combis (and of course the location of all combis for all banks).

Good luck with the conversion for now!

cynkh · Post by **cynkh** » Thu Jun 16, 2011 3:11 am

The conversion program I'm working basically analyzes an existing patch's SysEx or bank or whatever file and looks for certain parameters against a library of known parameters. It maps the highest and lowest values of a range and generates a function to convert in each direction, e.g. Synth A might only have values from 0-99 (think Casio CZ) whereas Synth B might be standard MIDI 0-127. The analysis also determines if any incompatibilities exist between synths like Synth B might be missing a large number of waveforms present in Synth A or Synth A may not have all of the filter types of Synth B. There's a threshold for what the acceptable variance is and anything outside of that threshold gets discarded or flagged in some fashion (like putting an '*' after the patch name) based on user-defined rules.
I'm still getting the wrinkles ironed out with converting from JP-8000/8080 to SH-32 (which is kind of like apples and oranges; but, they both have the supersaw so it seemed worth it!). The JP has a feedback oscillator not present on the SH and can also use sync mod through the filters whereas the SH loses the filter when sync mod is applied (although it provides a less robust filter as an effect type).

Btw, I found the .pcg file format information on Karma Labs' website. Nothing for the Kronos yet but I presume that's why you're tackling this!

Cheers!

michelkeijzers · Post by **michelkeijzers** » Thu Jun 16, 2011 8:15 am

cynkh wrote:It maps the highest and lowest values of a range and generates a function to convert in each direction, e.g. Synth A might only have values from 0-99 (think Casio CZ) whereas Synth B might be standard MIDI 0-127.

Note that the ranges (per parameter) might not necessarily be linear (both for Casio nor Korg).

cynkh · Post by **cynkh** » Fri Jun 17, 2011 2:47 pm

Yeah, that's been an issue with the proggie so far; but, that's why I keep a library of manuals and MIDI implementation papers around. I'm hoping to be able to snag, at least temporarily, each of the boards/modules I'll be converting to test the sound over as wide a range as possible.
Ultimately it would be great if Kronos could just "load" other manufacturers patches the way it does with DX SysEx files. That's what I'm aiming for.

michelkeijzers · Post by **michelkeijzers** » Fri Jun 17, 2011 7:38 pm

I emailed you my Sysex/PCG documentation. (didn't read this before I sent it so maybe you already have it).

It would be nice if you could use patches from other companies; actually, it would already be nice to 'convert' patches from other Korg synths (even newer ones), so when somebody upgrades to a Kronos, he can use his already made patches immediately.