Kronos or Motif XF..which to pick???

[JPWC]

Remember,

The keyboard(s) don't make the musician, the musician makes the keyboard.

Trust me, I have many keyboards, yet they have not made me a keyboard wiz, (maybe just a wiz)

[MarPabl]

I own both (88 keys each one) and I'm also on Motifator (I saw there your post) Any of those is a great choice, and there are certain deciding points to consider in order to choose the best for you:
- If you're going to program your own sounds without using samples, then choose Kronos. It has 9 different ways to program sounds.
- If you'll use many personalized samples (third party libraries) to get your sounds, then choose Motif XF. It has Flash memory boards which will let you load permanently your samples.
- If you'll use many synth sounds, then choose Kronos which has many synth engines with awesome sounds, not possible on Motif XF.
- If you will extensively record your music on the workstation, then choose Motif XF. It has two paradigms for sequencing and, while Kronos has RPPR, it just doesn't compare with patterns on Motif XF.
- If you'll use the workstation for live performances, then choose Kronos which has SST and you'll be able to switch between programs/combis/sequencer without sound dropoff. Motif XF can also do this, but not at all at the level you have with Kronos.
- If you will use the workstation with a DAW, then choose Motif XF. The Firewire expansion gives you more power and flexibility, compared with Kronos.
- If you need powerful tools to help you boost creativity, then choose Kronos. KARMA is more powerful than arpeggios on Motif XF, but if you don't mind using your computer to use KARMA, then choose Motif XF which has an arpeggiator and KARMA, third edition.
- If you plan to use acoustic sounds (other than Piano), then choose Motif XF (it also has 3 great pianos: CFIII, S6 and S700). I really prefer the acoustic sounds and XA (expanded articulations), but you better go, hear and decide because this is always a subjective comparison.

The only possible comparison between synth engines on Motif XF and Kronos is AWM2 (Yamaha) and HD-1 (Korg) Both are really different, powerful and you may need to read about them to see which one suits you better, because if you don't understand those, you won't use the workstation to the full extent. I personally find HD-1 more flexible for certain points (AMS comes to mind, for example), but I prefer the way the elements on Yamaha, rather than the oscillators on Korg.

If you can get both, it's even better... I like them both, and now I'm prefering the keybed action for Motif XF (88 keys) rather than RH3 from Kronos.

[Zeroesque]

- If you'll use many personalized samples (third party libraries) to get your sounds, then choose Motif XF. It has Flash memory boards which will let you load permanently your samples.

It should be noted that you can choose which samples you wish to have automatically loaded at startup on the Kronos, including your own. I have programs which utilize my own samples and they load at startup right off of the internal SSD. Beautiful.

[MarPabl]

- If you'll use many personalized samples (third party libraries) to get your sounds, then choose Motif XF. It has Flash memory boards which will let you load permanently your samples.

It should be noted that you can choose which samples you wish to have automatically loaded at startup on the Kronos, including your own. I have programs which utilize my own samples and they load at startup right off of the internal SSD. Beautiful.

Sure you can do that, but the point is that you must load them to RAM each time you turn on the Kronos (adding to boot time if you autoload), and for Motif XF you "burn" those just once and then you'll never have to load them again.

A positive point with Kronos (once we get OS 1.5) is that we'll get several new banks for programs. With Motif XF you can have those Flash memory boards to the fullest, but you can also run out of available voice slots so you'll need to overwrithe user banks to switch your voices and use all of your samples. However, this is done pretty fast.

[EXer]

I posted the same question on the motifator forum and so far the replies have all recommended the Kronos. Rather telling!

Also on Motifator? Than Yamaha must certainly do something wrong (or Korg something very good).

The Motif XF is a fine instrument. It's the culmination of a lineage which has its roots back to the W5 (AWM2 with 4 Elements per Voice, each Element being a self contained synth) and which really began with the EX5 (a very fine instrument!). There is a good reason why you can see Motifs everywhere on stage and on sets (just like you could see Trinities and Tritons everywhere before the Motif XS took the supremacy).

I would give my preference to the Motif XF if it wasn't limited to only one synthesis (sample based subtractive), if it could stream samples from a SSD and if it had a large touch screen like the Kronos.

On the other side, an enhanced Oasys in an affordable (*) package is a very attractive proposal.
__(*) in the US, not in Europe

While the Motif XF is the swansong of the rompler (in the sense of a sample based synth in which the samples are burnt into actual ROM chips), the Kronos is the beginning of a new generation; it's not untrue that the game has been changed.

And the Kronos, that is to say the Oasys, also brought up to date the concept of a multi-synthesis instrument which began with the Yamaha EX5 (and which had been dropped by Yamaha unfortunately) and went through the Alesis Fusion (a very underrated instrument).

But I believe the Kronos is not fully mature yet, and it suffers from quality issues and from the fact Korg have gone too far as to cost cuts. I was very enthousiastic about the Kronos, but I was a bit disappointed after having tried out a K88 (see here).

That said, for the time being Yamaha have no real competitor to the Kronos and they will have to react if they don't want to loose the supremacy they currently have on the workstation market. I hope they will release an EX5 II... At least that would urge on Korg to release a "Kronos Mproved". Long live competition!

Btw, according to David Weiser Kurz are cooking something new, although he didn't say what nor when...

[balfi]

Thanks for all the useful opinions...they have been very helpful.

My conclusion....Kronos is the most advanced board around despite some weaknesses like build quality and an inferior sequencer to the motif.

However, bearing in mind where we are in 2011, it would be worth waiting to see what the winter NAMM show throws up as an indication to the direction the 'big 3' are going, wlthough in these ecomomically hard times they may do no more than tweak their existing products.

If so, I'll stick my flag in the sand and go for the Kronos (with hopefully the upgraded OS, new sound editor and an improved build quality)

[Scott]

- If you'll use many personalized samples (third party libraries) to get your sounds, then choose Motif XF. It has Flash memory boards which will let you load permanently your samples.

It should be noted that you can choose which samples you wish to have automatically loaded at startup on the Kronos, including your own. I have programs which utilize my own samples and they load at startup right off of the internal SSD. Beautiful.

Sure you can do that, but the point is that you must load them to RAM each time you turn on the Kronos (adding to boot time if you autoload)

So really, this isn't an argument for choosing the Motif XF if you use a lot of your own samples... it's an argument for choosing the Motif XF if you can't deal with a 2+ minute boot time, which actually you have regardless of whether or not you're using your own samples.

[Mister088]

I currently own both!


And the winner is.....

synth sounds... KRONOS
piano....... Kronos
elec pianos Kronos
Brass/woodwind (especially solo) MOTIF
guitars/bass (especially acoustic) MOTIF
Strings....... i'd say a tie
drums Kronos

Basically, it comes down to what kind of music you create/play mostly

They're both great... check em out in stores and decide based on your taste and needs.


good luck

[MarPabl]

Sure you can do that, but the point is that you must load them to RAM each time you turn on the Kronos (adding to boot time if you autoload)

So really, this isn't an argument for choosing the Motif XF if you use a lot of your own samples... it's an argument for choosing the Motif XF if you can't deal with a 2+ minute boot time, which actually you have regardless of whether or not you're using your own samples.

Flash memory is an advantage for Motif XF and it's an important feature to better manage user defined multisamples because those will always be ready to be used just like conventional factory preset multisamples and additionally, those Flash expansion boards can be immediately used on different Motof XF (when touring and renting gear, for example) just by installing those. The last advantage is about reducing boot time, which is also important for live performances IMHO.

I'm not saying this can't be done on Kronos, but I'm saying this is easier and better on Motif XF.

[Scott]

Flash memory is an advantage for Motif XF
...
those will always be ready to be used just like conventional factory preset multisamples and additionally, those Flash expansion boards can be immediately used on different Motof XF (when touring and renting gear, for example) just by installing those. The last advantage is about reducing boot time, which is also important for live performances IMHO.

I'm not saying this can't be done on Kronos, but I'm saying this is easier and better on Motif XF.

Interesting point about being able to move the boards into other Motifs on the road. However, couldn't you likewise offload your Kronos custom samples into a USB stick and bring them on the road to load into another Kronos? On either machine you'd have to being a file of actual program presets that will recall your user samples, and load them into the board over USB, so it seems to me that transplanting the physical boards actually adds one more procedure, of having to open up and remove/install boards... and in fact, you'd have to do it more times. That is, when you offload your Kronos stuff into the USB sticks, everything is still in the Kronos so everything just works when you get back home. With the Yamaha cards, you'd have to uninstall the boards after the road gig, and then re-install the boards back in your own unit when you got back home.

I still don't see any real benefit to Yamaha's approach over Korg's except for the faster boot time (which is not insignificant). I actually prefer the Korg approach because you can completely alter your custom sample sets in minutes instead of hours.

[Felipe M]

I own both beasts. They're both great, but I believe that, given the 9 synth engines of the Kronos X, there's nothing the Motif XF can do that the Kronos X won't, but not the other way arround. Also, the touch screen makes it A LOT EASIER to program.

Best regards,

Felipe M.

[SeedyLee]

Which one do you find yourself using the most Felipe? I love the build quality and overall feel of the XF, and some of the acoustic sounds are absolutely fantastic out of the box, though I agree most of them aren't sounds the Kronos is incapable of reproducing.