M3 Pattern Recording

X-Trade · Post by **X-Trade** » Sun Jun 07, 2009 2:59 am

you really should look into the cue-lists, as jerry mentioned.
sounds exactly like what you are looking for
you can create multiple 'songs' in the sequencer, and string them together into an arrangement using the cue list function. I believe from there you can also bounce it down to a complete track and add more tracks with more continuous parts from there.
so you treat each 'song' as a 16-track pattern of any length.

Shakil · Post by **Shakil** » Sun Jun 07, 2009 3:06 pm

LiqMat

Never buy any stuff based on what others say, even the salesmen. You have to check yourself, and actually try to do it on the instrument the features you look for.

Each workstation has unique features, and there are pros and cons on all of them.

Yes, MOTIF has multichannel patterns, but do you know you can't play more than one at a time? You can't have a manual on/off, or one shot patterns? And you can't route multiple tracks to the insert effects, like you can do on M3.

And then, there are something on Motif you can't do on M3... Like editing sounds from sequencer.... Changing tracks while recording the patterns...

On Fantom-X you get everything.... multi-channel patterns, editing sounds and drums from sequencer, changing tracks while recording...

but you don't get KARMA with MOTIF or Fantom....

So, it's up to you what you need.

ktippets · Post by **ktippets** » Sun Jun 07, 2009 10:41 pm

I agree with Shakil that you've got to check out individual instruments for yourself and have a clear idea of how you want to use it. And you have to ask very specific questions to get the answers you are looking for. I find that sales people tend to favor what they use (of course) and promote those instruments.

It seems like most keyboards (especially workstations) now have a wealth of good to really great sounds and loads of features. They differ in their philosophy, approach or process of utilizing the sounds and features. So it comes down to how you like to make music.

Liqmat mentioned using Ableton Live, which leads me to believe he is trying to find a way to use that type of process on the M3. I have used Live and that type of process is very different from Korg.

Yamaha workstations (Motif ES and XS) do seem to be geared more towards a recording process that is phrase or loop based. (The ES has 1700 and the XS has 6000 pre-made phrases). I have the S90ES which has the sounds and phrases but not the sequencer so I don't know what those limitations are.

Korg has basically used the same sequencer (including RPPR) since the O1/w in 1991 which is a very linear approach. The Xpanded has some very nice and welcome additions to the M3 sequencer, but the process is esentially the same. By implementing KARMA in their high end workstations, Korg seems to have put their focus not so much on pattern based music making, but more on using patterns as a starting place for real time manipulation leading towards dynamic change and metamorphosis.

I like Korg's sequencer and use it mostly for very linear-type recording of entire sections, track by track. I use RPPR mostly for live playing to have easy control of parts coming in and out of an arrangement. I use this if I have specific parts that I want played the same every time.

Shakil · Post by **Shakil** » Tue Jun 09, 2009 1:02 am

Korg has basically used the same sequencer (including RPPR) since the O1/w in 1991 which is a very linear approach.

I don't a agree with this. The Sequencer has come a long way. Two major features were added with Triton line. Recording SysEx with Triton Classic ver 2 and Tone Adjust with Triton Studio.

The Sysex recording opened limitless possibilities.

And then new features added with Xpanded.

ktippets · Post by **ktippets** » Tue Jun 09, 2009 4:05 am

Korg has definately added many features to their sequencers, enhancing it's functionality, but the approach to recording is basically the same: you build songs one track or one part at a time. After you record one 'part' you have to stop the sequencer and then start another one. After you have recorded several parts then you can cut, paste, edit and maniplate them in various ways. This is what I consider a linear approach to recording.

It seems like Liqmat is trying find a way to record songs on the M3 using a very pattern based approach like you find in Ableton software or like Sony Acid, where the building blocks of songs are short, multi-timberal patterns that you can record. add or subtract parts in real time without ever stopping the sequence. This isn't the way Korg is set up. Trying to make the M3 something it isn't will only cause frustation. But...finding the best and most creaative ways to use the capabilities is does have is soooo much fun.

Shakil · Post by **Shakil** » Tue Jun 09, 2009 4:13 am

yes, definately.... I have been asking for that since triton.... changing tracks while recording.... so you could record multiple parts in one run while the sequencer loops....

Currently the only Korg workstation that allow changing tracks while recording are the PA series arrangers...

ktippets · Post by **ktippets** » Tue Jun 09, 2009 4:45 am

I have been asking for that since triton.... changing tracks while recording.... so you could record multiple parts in one run while the sequencer loops....

It seems that the only way to actually do this with the Korg is to use computer based programs or an external hardware sequencer. These are very cool. But...I would like to have the funcunality of real time multi track pattern/loop recording in the Korg and NOT have to use a computer. Maybe someday...

apex · Post by **apex** » Thu Oct 27, 2011 10:28 pm

I thought this was worth a BUMP!!!!

very good info.

apex · Post by **apex** » Fri Oct 28, 2011 4:27 am

can these phrases be transposed to other keys needed? or will they always only play in the original key recorded in?

IntrepidPete · Post by **IntrepidPete** » Fri Oct 28, 2011 12:25 pm

On my Ensoniq, you build up a song by recording several smaller full-channel/track sequences like intro, main1, main2, chorus, bridge, ending. Then you go into song mode and string the sequences together with repeats and such, and can also add more channels/tracks to the full song. Lastly you do the mixdown automation and tempo changes for the final song. I think all the Ensoniq sequencers worked that way, although the various workstations had different numbers of tracks - my TS is 24 (12 sequence and 12 song).

LiqMat, If you are able to experiment with the M3 and accomplish the same thing using Cue Lists and/or RPPR and/or using loop points within the sequencer, would like to see your thoughts on that. I am in the same boat as you, really like the workflow of the Ensoniq sequencer, and was assuming I could do the same type of workflow with M3 (getting mine in a couple more months) using cue lists, RPPR, sequencer loop points.

madbeatzyo111 · Post by **madbeatzyo111** » Fri Oct 28, 2011 11:07 pm

IntrepidPete wrote:On my Ensoniq, you build up a song by recording several smaller full-channel/track sequences like intro, main1, main2, chorus, bridge, ending. Then you go into song mode and string the sequences together with repeats and such, and can also add more channels/tracks to the full song. Lastly you do the mixdown automation and tempo changes for the final song.

You can do this in the M3 sequencer with the help of cue list. Let's say you record your intro, main1, main2, chorus, bridge. You can use cue list to string them together any way you want (including repeating parts), and then convert all to a single song--after which you can treat it like any other song (add more tracks, etc.).

But it's not a true pattern-based sequencer. See my thread where I bring up the same issue.

http://www.korgforums.com/forum/phpBB2/ ... highlight=

By the way I haven't found a way around this yet. So far I'm focusing on piano compositions where I don't need pattern-based sequencing, but eventually I'm going to have the face the reality that I'll need a new tool (MPC?).

apex · Post by **apex** » Sat Oct 29, 2011 1:13 am

madbeatzyo111 wrote:
IntrepidPete wrote:On my Ensoniq, you build up a song by recording several smaller full-channel/track sequences like intro, main1, main2, chorus, bridge, ending. Then you go into song mode and string the sequences together with repeats and such, and can also add more channels/tracks to the full song. Lastly you do the mixdown automation and tempo changes for the final song.
You can do this in the M3 sequencer with the help of cue list. Let's say you record your intro, main1, main2, chorus, bridge. You can use cue list to string them together any way you want (including repeating parts), and then convert all to a single song--after which you can treat it like any other song (add more tracks, etc.).

But it's not a true pattern-based sequencer. See my thread where I bring up the same issue.

http://www.korgforums.com/forum/phpBB2/ ... highlight=

By the way I haven't found a way around this yet. So far I'm focusing on piano compositions where I don't need pattern-based sequencing, but eventually I'm going to have the face the reality that I'll need a new tool (MPC?).

it would be better if you could manipulate it live... (change the order...) the cue list is set in stone....