Jupiter80 vs Kronos

[Scott]

a horrid interface, i mean horrid. I hate it.

The korg stuff is layed out so much better.

Each keyboard's interface does some things better than the other. But can you give an example of what you found horrid in the Jupiter interface?

[Francois]

Daft comments, followed by swearing....

Thank you defeofiuza for proving once more that profanity is the weapon of the witless.

Oh... and I love you too !

[Dany]

Va fanculo britanicco di merda!

It's intersting to put your Italian sentence "Va fanculo britannico di merda!“ into Google-Translate:

So the Google-Translation for your Italian sentence: "Va fanculo britannico di merda!" gives as a result the English sentence: "Go f*ck British s**t!"

Really? Do we need such an ugly nationalism like in the pre-WWII era, today in the year 2012?

Sorry, but you deserve to be banned immediately from this forum...

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Grazie, questo forum non è mai stato utile e vaffanculo anche tu

Sorry, but I don't understand the Italian language, so please allow me another Google-Translation from your Italian sentence "Grazie, questo forum non è mai stato utile e vaffanculo anche tu".

After applying Google-Translation from Italian to English to your sentence:

"Thanks, this forum has never been useful and f*ck you too"

Oh yes, thanks a lot and you're welcome...you are really showing an intelligent and subtle sarcasm, on a linguistical very exalted and educated level...

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[Hexfix93]

jup 80 and 50 has the price of a workstation, performance of a severely limited VA.

Limited timber, limited patch structure, and a dated sound engine, and finally doing what the moss board did years ago with the acoustic stuff. Roland is so out of touch, so way behind the times.

[JPWC]

Really? This thread was about the Kronos & JP-80, somehow it morphed into the mighty O. And now has sunk to profanity.

Va fanculo britanicco di merda!

I translate this into, "I can't afford either of these keyboards!"

Grazie, questo forum non è mai stato utile e vaffanculo anche tu

I translate this into " I can't figure out how to operate this keyboard"

[Darmin De'flern]

I appolagise for going off topic just never seen an oasis before as its never been on my radar. However just had to state how beautifull it was. So appolagise for my part in the thread derailment!

[Dany]

jup 80 and 50 has the price of a workstation, performance of a severely limited VA.

Limited timber, limited patch structure, and a dated sound engine, and finally doing what the moss board did years ago with the acoustic stuff. Roland is so out of touch, so way behind the times.

The sound engine isn't dated. Roland's "SuperNatural" technology is quite new.

The Korg MOSS board uses a completely different technology (pure physical modeling and no samples) than the JP-80. Roland's SN technology is using samples but processes (or "models") them in a different way than other known sample based synthesis methods, but it's not pure physical modeling in a mathematical sense.

You say the JP-80 uses a severely limited VA. Yes, compared e.g. to OASYS/Kronos's AL-1 VA synth, the JP-80 VA synth seems to be a joke at first glance.

But nevertheless, sitting behind the Jupiter-80 and playing and editing those sounds, makes great fun and it is an expressive instrument, which invites to play and create...
My only concern is, that it's not possible to really edit the SN acoustic sounds.

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[Scott]

jup 80 and 50 has the price of a workstation

Lots of things have the price of a workstation, the Jupiters aren't workstations. Does every keyboard over $2000 have to have a sequencer? (Something I've never used in a keyboard, btw.)

performance of a severely limited VA.

So you're placing the Jupiter 80 on a par with, say, a MicroKorg?

Limited timber, limited patch structure

For live performance (its intended use), the timbres and patch structures seem sufficient to me... but it really comes down to whether you like its sounds, and how its usability is in a live environment.

a dated sound engine.

It looked to me like they put a lot of new stuff in there. It's a pretty big break from the PCM foundation they used in the Fantom (and prior). And you know, "dated" isn't always a bad thing. Six engines of the Kronos date back to the Oasys... and a bunch of those are digital versions of sound engines from the 70s and 80s.

and finally doing what the moss board did years ago with the acoustic stuff.

so, who is doing the moss-style stuff better today? for $2k?

I can understand when someone says something is high-priced for what it is, whether it's a JV-80, a Nord Stage 2, a MiniMoog Voyager, a Yamaha CP1, an Oasys, whatever. Some people will find sufficient value in them, others won't. But so much Jupiter criticism seems to have nothing to do with how it sounds, or how well it performs in its intended role as a performance board (as opposed to a workstation, which it doesn't pretend to be). Now that the 50 is coming out at $2k, I wonder if people will be less focused on the price.

These are all such bargains compared to the old days, where if you wanted just the sounds of a Rhodes and a Clavinet, you had to buy a Rhodes and a Clavinet.

[Chriskk]

Hexfix93 wrote:
jup 80 and 50 has the price of a workstation, performance of a severely limited VA.

You will NEVER understand why people buy a Moog. It's not cheap, it is monophonic and its synth engine is rudimentary.

At the end of the day, what matters is the sound and the interface. The JP-80's VA has a wonderful interface and, more importantly, sounds like the Jupiter-8. Plus, with a huge polyphony, one can create some massive, complex sounds easily.

Try to program the AL-1.

[Francois]

These are all such bargains compared to the old days

Yes, compared with what used to be, bargain indeed.

I was looking at the original price of the Jupiter 8 in 1981. In today's money, taking inflation into account, it would equate to $16,500.00. Ooch!

[Scott]

At the end of the day, what matters is the sound and the interface.

Or in my case, sound, interface, and whether it's light enough for me to comfortably gig with!

[Kontrol49]

I was looking at the original price of the Jupiter 8 in 1981. In today's money, taking inflation into account, it would equate to $16,500.00. Ooch!

Given the silly prices some Jupiter 8s seem to get listed on eBay for it won't be long before they do actually cost that much

[Hexfix93]

If the jupiter 50 was like 700 bucks, it would be damn sweet, if the jup 80 was at 1600 it would be cool.

For what it does, i can do in software for a quarter of the price.

Kronos gives you a place to record vox and tracks, midi seq, karma, and a boatload of synth engines and some not found any where else.

Instant access to high quality pianos no loading. I prefer the sound of the ms20 and polysix and AL1 to the jup 80 and jup 50. Combis rock.

The kronos is priced right and gives you lots of power, 16 timbers + 16 audio tracks, this kicks the snot out of the jup80 for a cheaper price even. 12 insert fx too.

The legacy vst korg stuff aliases bad and its limited compared to how the kronos runs it with low aliasing, 48khz, and more mod routing and being able to layer 2 in one patch. Real time, no loading or waiting.

[tiggie_00]

yeah I gotta say that I played them all and the Kronos is the best thing going but it has alot of improvement needed.. I keep telling myself one day they will do it all.. get it right but I have been saying that to myself for a longggggggg time...

[Scott]

If the jupiter 50 was like 700 bucks, it would be damn sweet, if the jup 80 was at 1600 it would be cool.

Ah, so it really does come down to price. (A sound or interface that sucks at $3500 would still suck at $1600.)

But really, what can you get for $700 that you think is competitive with a jupiter 50? I mean, apart from the Casio XW-P1, what's the cheapest you can even find a rompler + clonewheel + VA synth, in a single performance board (or even in a pair)? (And the Casio certainly does not have anything like the Roland's SN acoustic sounds.)

For what it does, i can do in software for a quarter of the price.

Maybe, but that's true of almost any keyboard, if you only compare the cost of the software. So even if Jupiter-equivalent software exists, what would it cost you to get the software plus the computer plus a 76-key controller? And you'd still be trading off certain advantages of hardware (simplicity, out-of-the-box stability, no latency issues, convenient and direct operational interface, often simpler/faster patch switching and layering, no long reboots unless you have a Kronos...)

Kronos gives you a place to record vox and tracks, midi seq, karma

I own a Kronos (and I do not own a Jupiter), but everything you mentioned there is entirely useless to me. If that's what you need, the Jupiter is the wrong tool, but that doesn't make it a bad keyboard, it's just wrong for your purposes. A station wagon is better than a convertible if you need to carry stuff around, but that doesn't make the convertible a bad car... even if it costs as much as the station wagon. It's just a matter of what you need.

The Jupiter is designed as a performance board, and for most people, the things you mentioned are compositional workstation tools, not live performance gigging tools. It just happens that Korg doesn't make a really good high-end straight gigging board, so those of us who like Korg end up having to buy something with all that other stuff we don't care about!