many QR "Drum Track Parameters" programs lost?

[JimmyTheSaint]

Newbie here. I've loaded QR's stuff, KRS-03, and Catalyst 1. I tweak, but haven't written any changes to anything so that I can be confident I don't mess things up. I've discovered that some progs have their drum kit in Common>Drum Track>Drum Track Parameters>Program set to something from the fast synth category instead of the drum category, which I would guess just about anyone would find unsuitable. For example, QR's MS-20 prog #2 "Purified Water Lead" has this parameter set to U-A026 "16 OSC Super Saw." Another example: QR's PolySix prog #20 "Heat Wave Arp" has this parameter set to U-A031 "Dark Octave."

It's no big deal since I can easily set the drum kit to a drum kit manually, and save the result. I'd just like to ask if this situation indicates that I've somehow inadvertently overwritten stuff at some point. If so, I might try to figure out if I've messed up other things. I was pretty careful when loading stuff because I saw some posts where people messed things up. If I myself have messed things up, I can always restore the factory settings without worrying about losing anything. But I'd rather not do that if there's no error here.

[QuiRobinez]

Newbie here. I've loaded QR's stuff, KRS-03, and Catalyst 1. I tweak, but haven't written any changes to anything so that I can be confident I don't mess things up.

I've discovered that some progs have their drum kit in Common>Drum Track>Drum Track Parameters>Program set to something from the fast synth category instead of the drum category, which I would guess just about anyone would find unsuitable. For example, QR's MS-20 prog #2 "Purified Water Lead" has this parameter set to U-A026 "16 OSC Super Saw." Another example: QR's PolySix prog #20 "Heat Wave Arp" has this parameter set to U-A031 "Dark Octave."

the highlighted text is not true

what you did was that you override the USER A bank from the Kronos with a Fast synth bank. Normally when you buy the Kronos the Preloaded User banks are filled with sounds. I'm using a lot of electronic drumkits in my soundsets like the drumkits from a 909 or 808. These are normally loaded by default in the user bank U-Axxx

That's something to keep in mind when you load user banks or bought banks, you can better use the program locations U-AA till U-GG because a lot of the combis and sounds will use the default kronos preload soundset which is filled till U-Fxxxx.

in the old situation you only had one free bank U-Gxxx
now you also have U-AA till U-GG so use those ones instead and every set you load from anyone will keep working

[JimmyTheSaint]

Yup, that explains it. I loaded KRS-03 into U-A because I assumed that all user banks were "safe." OK, I see now that only the double-lettered user banks are truly safe for newbies. So, I guess my best option at this point--being a new user with no work to save--is simply to do a factory reset?

Thanks so much, QR. Another big fan of your soundsets, informative posts, and YouTube demos and tutorials.

[Yuma]

So, I guess my best option at this point--being a new user with no work to save--is simply to do a factory reset?

I think this is the fastest way indeed. Do a factory reset and afterwards load KRS-03 in the U-AA (or higher) bank.

[Sparker]

Re: reloading factory sounds:

Something I've found useful is making a copy of the initial factory load and saving it under a new name and then using the new (named) set as the automatic default loaded sound set - this means that if I mess up my soundbanks then I can just revert to the stored original factory sounds and rename it (again) - this saves having to reload the factory set from the CD's each time I want to go back to the default state of the Kronos.

[JimmyTheSaint]

Re: reloading factory sounds:

Something I've found useful is making a copy of the initial factory load and saving it under a new name and then using the new (named) set as the automatic default loaded sound set - this means that if I mess up my soundbanks then I can just revert to the stored original factory sounds and rename it (again) - this saves having to reload the factory set from the CD's each time I want to go back to the default state of the Kronos.

Per page 265 of the operations manual, I restored the factory settings from PRELOAD.PCG, which is already on the SSD as shipped from the factory. No need for the Accessory Disk. Am I missing something?

[Sparker]

From the Op Guide pg 178:

“Preload data” refers to the sounds and other data loaded in the KRONOS when it is shipped from the factory. You are free to rewrite this data, and with the exception of the demo songs, the data will be written to the location listed in “Writing to internal memory.”

My understanding was that unless a new location/file is created then the saved data will overwrite the factory .pcg file.
In which case the original factory settings would need to be loaded from the back-up Disc.

So, I guess my best option at this point--being a new user with no work to save--is simply to do a factory reset?

Yes indeed - as you haven't saved anything yet then the factory.pcg file in the Kronos will be as per the default factory set - if in the future you are going to be saving data then make a new .pcg file and set the Kronos to autoload the new file - that way the factory.pcg file will remain untouched in case you need to restore the default settings in the future.

Am I missing something?

No you're not. I'm probably overstating the obvious ...

[JimmyTheSaint]

My understanding was that unless a new location/file is created then the saved data will overwrite the factory .pcg file.
In which case the original factory settings would need to be loaded from the back-up Disc.

Hmm. The operations manual says this on p.265:

You can easily restore the Programs, Combinations,
Drum Kits, Wave Sequences, Set Lists, and EXs
samples to their original state as shipped from the
factory. This is done by loading the PRELOAD.PCG
file, which is included both on Accessory Disk 2 and
the internal disk.

So the manual equates the Accessory disk's PRELOAD.PCG with the one on the SSD. If the one on the SSD gets modified in the ordinary course of saving stuff, then the manual's instructions are pretty misleading.

[Sparker]

I think the manual can be a little confusing.

Op Guide - pg 177:

You are free to rewrite this data, and with the
exception of the demo songs, the data will be written to
the location listed in “Writing to internal memory.”

the word 'rewrite' is ambiguous as it could mean 'copy' (as in 'rewrite to another location') or 'overwrite'.

It then goes on to say:

Preset data is data that cannot be rewritten by the
Write operation. This includes the following data:
• The General MIDI Program banks, including G,
g(1)–g(9), and g(d): 001–128
• Preset Drum Kits 144 (GM)–152 (GM)
• Preset Template Songs P00–P17
• Preset patterns P000–P697

which initially sounds like the preset data can't be overwritten, but appears to be limited to the bulleted items (GM data and templates).

If the factory presets are locked (Para Guide pg 815) then they cannot be overwritten - (I don't know if this is the original factory setting as mine was already used when I got it).

My basic understanding is that the factory preset data will be overwritten unless another .pcg file is specified as the save location.

[JimmyTheSaint]

Actually, I did write one change before I did the restore: I modified the Kronos Grand's (I-A000) drum pattern and drum kit. After the restore from the PRELOAD on the SSD, those two setting changes were lost and that prog's drums were reset to virgin. Being new, I may have confused or forgotten what I did, but I'm pretty sure I saved the change correctly. I made the same change to my restored progs, and it survived a reboot, so that means I at least did it right this time. So if this tweak doesn't survive a restore from the SSD's PRELOAD.PCG, that would imply PRELOAD.PCG doesn't get modified. But then, what does get modified when you save changes?

[Sparker]

Maybe someone else can shed some light?

[JimmyTheSaint]

Oh, yeah, one other change I made that didn't survive the restore: I had to switch the polarity of the damper to accommodate my pedal. After I restored, it was reset to its factory state.

[ronnfigg]

Once again I think the confusion between "write" and "save" is rearing it's ugly head. The Kronos "writes" to internal memory when booting and loading. It "saves" when you go to Disk Mode and save data to the SSD. If you "save" preload data to the disk it wiil "write" it to memory (RAM) when you load that file. As stated earlier by someone else, save a new PCG (I always do a "Save All") of the preload with a different name and you can reload that if you have a problem. I always make folders with unique names and if I am not sure if what I save is going to work, I make another folder with a unique name and Save All. Then if something goes amiss, I have a backup. Don't forget, some things have to be writtento RAM (Global changes, etc) if you want thoses global changes to be good if you load a PCG after boot up, brsure you saved the PCG to the SSD.

[X-Trade]

The actual factory preload PCG on the SSD is read-only and can not be overwritten.

When you 'write' a change you push that change to the current program/combi slot, or into global settings, etc, so that it is remembered at boot.

On older keyboards, this would be saving to battery-backed RAM or flash storage. You can think of it a bit like a single PCG file which represents the 'working state' of the keyboard.

Saving a PCG file is simply taking a copy of that 'working state' and putting it to file. Loading that PCG or parts of it, will overwrite data in the current 'working state' file in RAM/Flash/whatever. It is effectively a snapshot of the written parameters of the keyboard at the time that you saved it, so any further 'Write' operations will not update the PCG file you just saved.

(also note that if you have been editing a program and have not Written changes, then those changes will not be in any PCG file you save at that time)



In the technical reality of it, Krono based on a PC architecture has no battery backed RAM or Flash data storage. It doesn't need it as it has RAM and an SSD. The data is probably kept in RAM for fast access whilst powered on, but a copy of that data is certainly kept on disk somewhere, which gets read into memory (RAM) when the K is powered on. 'Write' probably pushes the change to the RAM and File copy simultaneously.