Returning my Kronos

jimknopf · Post by **jimknopf** » Mon Sep 17, 2012 10:32 am

Simur, I don't think the power of the Kronos can be used with a simple interface. In fact I think that, looking at the enormous amount of features, it has a very well accessable UI. After playing Roland synths for some years, I didn't need more than 3 weeks to get a good first overview and use all the main functions.

If someone is not willing to invest at least these three weeks, he/she should not buy a Kronos in the first place, but some simple entry level keyboard with a decent set of presets, or a stage piano with limited sounds and settings. Even a Nord Stage needs at least some manual reading, despite it's clear cut user interface.

kimu · Post by **kimu** » Mon Sep 17, 2012 10:41 am

i keep on saying that the best UI (except for knobby synth) is the one Roland designed for V-synth.

of course V-synth is powerful but probably not so powerful and deep as kronos is, but it comparable to M3, and M3 has a worst learning curve than V-synth...

kingy10kingy · Post by **kingy10kingy** » Mon Sep 17, 2012 10:46 am

Korg really need to offer better support, offer tuition and workshops.

I share your frustration , I have many song ideas in my head and having the potential to make them but theres always so much blocking my path. The manual doesn't cover everything and the tutorial videos are very simplistic and basic (choosing a patch , selecting a combi etc.. )

simur · Post by **simur** » Mon Sep 17, 2012 10:48 am

Well, It is a challenge... I did not say that is easy to do!

I am an usability professional and I know that complex digital system have a lot of designing challenge. I think that Korg did a good job and I love Kronos!!

I can tell you that something could be done (in another product or project).
The interface design is closer to the hardware architecture more than user final goals... Let me explain. For example: the fact that the sound are organize in 128 slot banks is it necessary for the musician? This organization reflex the hardware / software arch.. The user does not need to use banks, need categories (infact they are!!), need tags, favorites, power search, and so on..
Users does not need to move banks and sound combi reference, this task should be done by the OS without let the user know.

I hope it my point is clearer now

jimknopf · Post by **jimknopf** » Mon Sep 17, 2012 11:05 am

Yes, I get your point. The user should have to deal as little as necessary with the machine logic, and there is certainly space to improve.

In the meantime, what would help a lot, would be step by step "how to" instructions (both videos and manuals) for often recurring user tasks, like some already exist (Qui's etc.).

This should be done in a systematic way by Korg, if they want to reach the kind of users (there ar many of them) who need such tutorials to get things going. The existing manuals can't cover this user and solution oriented task.

mikero · Post by **mikero** » Mon Sep 17, 2012 12:45 pm

Thanks for the replies all...I was pretty frustrated last night. I have had the Kronos or two weeks now and can't even figure out how to do a simple split.

I will keep trying....maybe I'll pick up that dvd...I still have 30 days if I decide to return it.

thanks

kimu · Post by **kimu** » Mon Sep 17, 2012 12:51 pm

have a look to the quick start guide

http://www.korg.com/uploads/Support/Kro ... art_E2.pdf

that maybe is better then starting directly with the big manual.
then i suggest to go to the manual only for things you really want to do when you need it (e.g. split as you say) rather than reading all the stuff from scratch.

take your time and start learning what is most of interest for you.

also have a look to all the video manual by korgus

part 1 here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w77zsCHO2Oc

QuiRobinez · Post by **QuiRobinez** » Mon Sep 17, 2012 12:53 pm

mikero wrote:Thanks for the replies all...I was pretty frustrated last night. I have had the Kronos or two weeks now and can't even figure out how to do a simple split.

you can just ask these kind of questions on this forum.

Creating a simple split (piano on the right, bass on the left):

- press the combi button
- select an init combi location
- put a piano in timbre 1
- put a bassline in timbre 2
- now press the 'midi filter / zones' tab on the screen (a part of the keyboard is refered to as keyboard zone in korg language)
- press the subtab Keyboard zones
- touch the top key textbox for timbre 2 (it's black now)
- hold the enter button on your numeric keypad and press the B2 note on your keyboard
- now press the bottom key textbox on the touchscreen for timbre 1
- Hold the enter button on your numberic keypad and press the C3 Note on your keyboard

That's all, now you've created a keyboard split a C3 for the bass and the piano.

This is explained in the Korg Kronos parameter guide at page 466.

It's really not that hard, you just need to take some time to get used to the korg terminology and the menu system. So don't give up, but take a couple of hours to read the manual and trying things out.

jimknopf · Post by **jimknopf** » Mon Sep 17, 2012 12:56 pm

mikero, just post your questions in separated threads, just like "How do I make a simple split in a combi", and you will get answers. If the solution is basic, you might get an answer like "read manual page xy". Else users will help you through. This forum is very supportive. And if you have problems getting into the whole thing, I guess the DVD will be a very good start for you.

P.S. thanks, Qui, you were faster

simur · Post by **simur** » Mon Sep 17, 2012 1:29 pm

Hi guys,
I would like to perform a user research about digital instruments to get more information about user needs (and usability issues) in this field, as I usually do on software developing process to drive the design and development.

I would like to interview any of you who would be so kind to spend 15-20 min Skype interview, talking about your experience with your gear and musical instruments. If anyone is interested and wants to be involved, please send me a PM to arrange a call.

sl72 · Post by **sl72** » Mon Sep 17, 2012 1:40 pm

Hi mikero.
I have had my Kronos 88 for about a month now. I've probably spent 3 hours a day with it and yes, it's a deep instrument. But if you learn how to use it... You will love it

I used it for the first time live this weekend. You should see my bandmates who heard it for the first time, their jaws just dropped! And it sounded wonderful in my PA system. It was a joy to gig with

So what I am saying is don't give up. If there is something you don't know how to do, just ask in this forum. I've done that several times, and I got help.

"sorry for my bad english"

SL72

JPWC · Post by **JPWC** » Mon Sep 17, 2012 1:43 pm

I think you need to slowdown.

Simply plug it in and play, need a great piano? Well the Kronos boots up to a great piano, no menus, no program, just play.

Next, push the program button and start playing through the 100's of sounds pre-programming and ready to go.

Next, push the Combi button and keep on playing.

Learn how to push the Karma button, to turn Karma on & Off, do the same with the drum button.

This simple steps should offer months and maybe even years of enjoyment and use.

Once you've master these simple things, you be able to dive deeper. Stop trying to produce the 32 track world hit. I have lots of keyboards and it always takes me months to go through these simple steps.

lotty1 · Post by **lotty1** » Mon Sep 17, 2012 1:58 pm

Francois wrote:Anybody who is not used to using top of the range workstations should get a video tutorial and spend time learning all the basics.

For the Kronos, Sudosonic sell a 4 hours and 41 minutes tutorial on BluRay or DVD for $70, that contains 44 lessons.

http://www.sudosonic.com/servlet/the-49 ... nos/Detail

If you spend the money on a Kronos and feel overwhelmed by the sheer number of functions, then you could do worse than watch these tutorials with your Kronos in front of you.

I'm sorry to say I bought Sudosnic video Tutorial and was very disappointed.
The video do not go into enough depth and spend a lot of time telling you what the kronos can do but not how to do it. The video I found gave very little help Qui video are much better and they are free. This is my opinion

JuneauUnderground · Post by **JuneauUnderground** » Mon Sep 17, 2012 2:09 pm

Sudosonic would be a big help. I ran into this problem in my M3 days, which I still have. I remember when i started working with it asking myself "what have you done here". Haven't figured it out yet completely either. However, I spent the time with the M3 to figure out a lot of stuff. The Karma tutorials from Steven Kay were a huge help as well.

Now that I have a Kronos, the learning curve was a lot shorter due to my M3 experience due to the similar interface. By no means do I have a firm grasp on all it's features, but now I do have have enough of a clue to get most of the sounds out of it I want. Still haven't grasped remotely how to program from scratch, but I'll get there eventually. Also with all the third party stuff out there I find the need for scratch programming to be less. However, I do want to learn the art of synthesis, and trust I eventually will.

Hang in there. The Kronos as folks here say is deep and wide and not for the timid. I would suggest that you watch all of Qui Robinez video tutorials. He knows what he is doing and his videos will give you a big taste of what the Kronos is all about. And, again take a look at the Sudosonic videos, they are very basic and thorough and will really get you into the Kronos. Also the folks here on this forum are very giving of their time in helping you sort things if you need help. All you have to do ask. Good luck!

orangefunk · Post by **orangefunk** » Mon Sep 17, 2012 2:33 pm

It would be interesting to know where the OP is coming from i.e. expectations/experiences of other synths/keyboards.

For sure someone coming from a digital piano could find the Kronos intimidating... but even then you can always simply select a piano and be in your comfort zone.

Someone coming from the MOTIF range (like I did, although I rarely programmed anything on it.. too many easier options) might struggle with some concepts... but its not so different when you know how.

I am coming from a traditional analogue/knobby background and I can see the same parameters on the Kronos littered throughout its different engines so its not so difficult.

Like a previous poster mentioned, I additionally have the V-Synth GT but in contrast to the original V-Synth (which I had years back) its a bit of a pig to use.. The original was indeed the best GUI yet on any synth...

The complexity in the Kronos really comes in the feeling that you need to know everything inside out... and I don't think that's the case. You can simply take the HD-1 engine and create some simple analogue patches.. make some simple combis (piano/strings layer with a split bass and simple drum track) and gradually build up some confidence.

In other words, you don't need to grasp the sequencer, the Karma stuff, the intricacies of the FM engine, etc etc.. just yet... just play with the stock patches, work out how to use the filter, add fx etc... its more than enough...