Advice/Feedback: I'm Thinking of Buying a Kronos

[flemmings27]

1. Your favorite thing/characteristic/sound, etc about the Kronos

You get a lot for your money. I've had mine about 9 months and haven't even really scratched the surface with what can be done with it.

I love the setlists

I love the vector Joystick

I lover the feel of the RH3 keybed (on the X version)

2. Ease of breaking the learning curve on getting around on the board, tweaking sounds, and writing songs

I only use mine at home and have cubase for my DAW. I occasionally use the sequencer if I need to record something quickly and cubase/PC isn't on and I also use it for its metronome, so cant really comment about writing songs on the Kronos.

The learning curve is going to be different for each person, someone with a history of synth programming or Korg Synths will pick it up a lot quicker than someone new to it all.

Personally I find it easy to tweak sounds.

Korg supply a few videos on the 2nd DVD to explain various functions on the Kronos, plus there's numerous youtube videos. Qui has done some really great in-depth training videos for the Kronos, all totally free.

3. Your biggest dislike on the board (or anything you find frustrating/have had trouble with.

The number of people having major problems is actually quite small. But those that have reported problems on here (myself included) almost without exception have had a nightmare getting it fixed by Korg, often being without their Kronos for weeks if not months, sometimes having to return it 3 or 4 times to get the problem finally fixed.

I'm on my 3rd actual Kronos, I had two original versions both with problems, the second one came back from repair with the problem still there. Had my store not offered me the X version I would not be a Korg customer today.

I'm glad I did get offered the X but I don't have confidence in Korg as a quality company any more which is the only reason I have not pre-ordered their new MS20 yet., The fact that music store staff recently commented on how Korgs quality has gone downhill over the past few years does nothing to boost my confidence.

Next time Korg brings out a new synth, doesn't matter how ground breaking it is, I will NOT buy it however good it is as I have lost faith in them as a quality company that cares about their customers. I waited over a year since release with the Kronos presuming by that time I would be safe with my purchase, turns out I could not have been more wrong.

If they do ever bring out another ground breaking synth, I shall wait until it's a good 2 - 3 years old and pick one up from ebay (if it hasn't had the quality problems the Kronos has had)

The original Kronos has been released with two completely different versions of the RH3 weighted keybed with completely different action, different textured black notes etc (both my original Kronos had completely different keybeds), but Korg have never publicly acknowledged this. This then leads to confusion when people give reports as to how good/bad they think their keybed is because I don't know which keybed they are playing on. And you could try one out in a shop, hate it but find that if you had bought a boxed version it had a different keybed you would have loved.

My X has 3 keys that make annoying noise (mechanical). One makes a boing boing boing noise as though when it's released suddenly the key weight is still bouncing up and down, two of the others rattle like a cheap plastic sound when played very lightly or fingers resting on them, not a major problem, but not something I expect on a keyboard that costs over £3k/ Had this been my first Kronos I would have returned it or sent it to Korg for adjustment, but after what I experienced from my previous two, I don't have faith in them to fix it properly and seeing as the notes all sound fine and the velocities are all great, I've decided to put up with the noises (again that says something about my belief in Korgs ability to fix it)

I cant believe they didn't change the fan in the X version when so many people had problems with the original version.

Korg know the exact serial number that guarantees you the newer keybed contacts but will not make this information public.

I find spending any reasonable length of time editing on the screen gives me bad neck ache to the point I've had to buy myself a neck support to help stop the pain when doing so.

The PC editor is best described as a joke and the lack of 64 bit DAW integration is in my opinion unforgivable.

The price of their sound addons are way overpriced, especially as they are locked to your Kronos and cant be unlocked and transferred to a new Kronos or sold to someone else (so if you purchase two $250 sound packs and in 3 years time your Kronos died and you pick one up cheap from ebay, you have to either buy those sounds again, or not have them)

Selling the Austrian piano for $249 and the legendary strings for another $249 feels to me like they deliberately sold the Kronos without these two libraries just to try and get another $500 out of us. if the Kronos has the great pianos Korg claims, why the high price for the Austrian one?

Korg do something weird in that if you have a 3rd party half damper pedal, it wont work in half damper mode properly with the Kronos, you need to buy the actual Korg one instead.

I would personally never trust this board for gigging (although many do without any problems) and unlike every other synth I've owned in the past 32 years, I don't see this one still working happily in 10 years time (I really hope I'm wrong).

The file name length limit is ridiculous in 2013

It takes a while to grasp how everything is saved, at first if your anything like me, you will find yourself often loosing changes you made.

I have to play sitting down due to health problems and the tall knobs and the way their function is written above them, means I cant actually see the functions from the sitting down position (doesn't take that long to get used to what each button does though)

4. What do you think are the strongest sounds/patches in the Kronos? Which are the weakest?

Everyone's going to have a different opinion on this, I love the pianos and I love the various synth sounds. That said, I have Alicias Keys on my PC and can get that sounding virtually the same as the Kronos Japanese grand (wouldn't tell the difference unless you heard them side by side, even then it's pretty close) and I bought Alicias keys in one of NIs sales for £50


I have said and I sort of stand buy it that having owned a Kronos, there's no other hardware synth I would want and even if mine fell to bits I would get it fixed rather than change for another make. But part of me looks at the price of Korgs addons, lack of Daw integration the neck ache etc and worry about the long term reliability and as I have Komplete 8 Ultimate, wonder whether I would be better off simply selling it, getting komplete 9 Ultimate and omnisphere and another Triton Extreme or something similar and still having about £1k left in the bank.

Bearing in mind my PC takes 16 secs from pressing the power button to being at the desktop (and I could get it quicker if I removed the add-on sata card) and under 7 secs to have Kontact running with say Alicias Keys, 23 seconds in total,

Whereas my Kronos takes 2 minutes 26 secs (just timed with a stopwatch), the argument of a hardware synth being simpler to use simply turning on and playing sort of goes out the window.

I do love the Kronos but at the same time due to what I've been through, I've never felt this negative towards anything I've liked so much before in my entire life.

I could never recommend the original version of either the 73 or the 88, sure there's people out there without problems but its still a risk.

OJUSTABOO - thanks for all the great feedback - there's some very promising and very offputting things here in what you say. I thought the Kronos has been out for a few years now. I wonder if the 2013 models are presenting the same problems? I'm still breaking learning curve on my DAW, and am conscious of the fact I may be duplicating effort in some ways with regard to a choice for a workstation, rather than a straight synth. What is the file length limit?

[flemmings27]

Whatever you choose has to fit you,

I am surprised that your GC does not have a Kronos on display. Did you ask one of the associates why no Kronos? If you have a Sam Ash by you they might have one to check out.

I asked them, and they, being kids, didn't really have an answer. But I think it's because the potential buying public in this area probably doesn't spend that kind of money, and there are other GCs about an hour further north where I could. I tried to search for a place that had both the Kurzweil PC3LE and the Korg Kronos, and haven't found any that the Kurz, while some shops had the Kronos. No Sam Ash near me. I wanted to A/B the Kurz PC3LE and Kronos, even though I know they are very different beasts, but the Kurz has a much cheaper price tag and satisfies many of the bread and butter sounds I'm currently seeking. I also think that the Kurz sounds better in the "playoff" type videos you can watch on youtube. The piano sounds are much richer than Yamahas, etc. In general, the sounds on Yamaha synths and workstations that I've played around with, just don't inspire me.

[flemmings27]

I Love My X88.
I have a recent one with no problems at all.
I don't use it for sequencing or loading other libraries into it.
My Kontakt and Halion take care of all my sampling needs much better anyway.
There isn't any hardware on the market that can come close to any of the software daws out there so I don't bother using the sequencing features either.
Some people complain about the memory patch buttons, not being logical (given) but hey, touch the screen, choose the type of genre you want, choose the sound. It doesn't get any easier. Logical to me.
My midi drivers work fine on my PC if i need my Daw to play the Kronos.

I really bought it for the purity of most of the sound Engines. Awesome !
There's a certain quality you'll get here that you just don't get with plugins, and I have a lot of high end ones. Then again, it's my opinion that Korg really doesn't come close to sample libraries that are made for software samplers that have been out for a while. There kinda substandard for the price of what you can get elsewhere. (Korg really needs to get a contract with a good sampling company)
It really is a beautiful instrument and I love playing it but I think Korg could of saved us a little money on the design as far as leaving out features that just don't even come close to what common software that everybody has is doing today. I understand the terminology of "Workstation" and it's supposed to have those features but it's 2013. Everyone uses Daws these days unless your old school and if you are you wouldn't comprehend the Kronos sequencer very easily anyway.

*The traditional sounds in this keyboard are the best in the business. It doesn't get any better.
*Sample libraries to date way overpriced and substandard.
*Pay for extra patch libraries? Don't do it. Learn your expensive purchase.
*X88 keybed feel not as good as my Fantom X88 but O.K.
*No I won't get rid of it. It's a keeper as of now, but with the way software is developing, a couple of years from now? Maaaaybeeee bye bye.

Thanks for this great input Brenon!

[flemmings27]

Get an X one. I've got X 73. There is no problem, I have encountered until now.

Before I bought, I had read all the things about its keybed, screen, fan etc. .

Despite the fact you may buy faulty one, just buy it. If you are considering all of the flagships, Motif XF - PC3K - Kronos; create a comparison chart and decide best one which will meet your needs.

Questions;

1. Your favorite thing/characteristic/sound, etc about the Kronos

Its filters. I've always fallen in love with Korg's filters. It sounds nice. Furthermore, SGX-1 / EP-1 / CX-3 have very impressive sounds.

2. Ease of breaking the learning curve on getting around on the board, tweaking sounds, and writing songs

At first, all come French. Somehow it is easy to get use to it. Hardest parts are KARMA and Sequencer mode, in my opinion. Nevertheless I learnt at least %50 of them at first week, especially Sequencer mode.

3. Your biggest dislike on the board (or anything you find frustrating/have had trouble with.

Sequencer mode has only one undo function.

4. What do you think are the strongest sounds/patches in the Kronos? Which are the weakest?

Personally I don't use whole of the patches. I use what I strongly like. German Grand, Japanese Grand, all of the EP-1 EP's, MOD-7 FM EP's, Slow-Legato Stereo Strings and %90 of the guitars, especially the STR-1 acoustic ones.


Finally I repeat, do not take heed of what people say. Just buy it, you won't be dissappointed.

Buğra

Thanks Bugra - you and a person on here called Pedro recommended the X - why it over the other? The Kronos is already slightly out of the price range I wanted to spend. I agree with you that the German Grands sound fantastic on the Kronos. And, just to clarify, in terms of the other keyboards I've been looking at, it's been somewhat of apples and oranges, b/c the board I've most considered is the Kurz PC3LE series (a lesser version of the PC3K), but given the costs of Kurz's, the the PC3LE is not that much less than a Kronos, but when you jump up to the PC3K, then I think you are in the range of a Kronos X. My eye was initially zero-ing in on the PC3LE, as the one that had a lot of basic sounds that I really thought sounded good (at least from Kurz's site where you can listen and to the "shootout" type videos where people play a couple different keyboads. As I was telling Diego 5150, I haven't been able to find a Kurz PC3LE in the flesh in a local shop, so I have no idea what it's like to be hands on with it. I came onto the Kronos after doing more research and finding that it is available at a place where I can put hands on.

[flemmings27]

A bit late in responding to this,here are some of my views.

1) Favorite sounds….The piano voice,it was the real reason in buying one,for me.
(Even though I'm now having problems .See answer to q 3).

Being a workstation with all that it can do,sample playing,karma on board,a hammer type keybed (RH3),combination of sounds,programmable and many other little gems that are still being discovered.

2) The learning curve is quite steep for many,others just get on with ease,I'm taking a long time to do simple things,but am happy to do so at my own pace.

3) The piano voice in particular has a fault with the keybed regarding velocity…which will get repaired one day,soon.(My fault for the delay).
I believe it may be related to the key contact rubbers which are replaceable.
Korg has told me directly that my keyboard has the newer type rubber contacts fitted,according to their records and should not have had any problems(to the best of their knowledge,of course).
However,I've got the velocity problem regardless,meaning that there's no guarantee as to which contacts are fitted..a problem may occur anyway,but can eventually be repaired.

4) As for the strongest sounds,well,it's a matter of taste and preference,it can produce most quite well and of course there are libraries(depending on affordability) available to cater for any "weak" ones that are felt to be missing.

I would recommend buying a Kronos,preferably an X version with only one reservation,that being,to be prepared to discover some faults…..but persevere with a repair as or if required.
On balance though,many have faultless instruments and probably the ones that have had problems are,just unlucky...
You won't be disappointed with a good working one and will probably further enjoy music making!!

Best Wishes.

Thank you Pedro - you and Bugra suggested buying an X. Why do you suggest that? As I told Bugra, the Kronos is already a bit above the price I wanted to spend, but what got me to the Kronos was looking at/listening to, but not getting to put my hands on (cuz no one within 400 miles has one) a Kurzweil PC3LE (which is a lower version of the PC3K series). The Kurz PC3LE is less expensive than the Kronos, but if I jump to the actual PC3, then that gets into Kronos X price ranges I think. I'm trying to have my pudding and eat it too, so would like to stay down in price, but would like to hear your feedback about "why the X." Cheers!

[Bertotti]

Well I will qualify what I said about the 88, I do not wish I had one now because I now have an external source for extra keys and apparently the extra keys was all I was missing. I love my 61!

[Diego5150]

I am surprised that your GC does not have a Kronos on display. Did you ask one of the associates why no Kronos? If you have a Sam Ash by you they might have one to check out.
[/quote]

I asked them, and they, being kids, didn't really have an answer. But I think it's because the potential buying public in this area probably doesn't spend that kind of money, and there are other GCs about an hour further north where I could. I tried to search for a place that had both the Kurzweil PC3LE and the Korg Kronos, and haven't found any that the Kurz, while some shops had the Kronos. No Sam Ash near me. I wanted to A/B the Kurz PC3LE and Kronos, even though I know they are very different beasts, but the Kurz has a much cheaper price tag and satisfies many of the bread and butter sounds I'm currently seeking. I also think that the Kurz sounds better in the "playoff" type videos you can watch on youtube. The piano sounds are much richer than Yamahas, etc. In general, the sounds on Yamaha synths and workstations that I've played around with, just don't inspire me.[/quote]

As I said before as a second board I was looking into the Kurzweil. My Yamaha is over 20 years old now and is a toy compared to what is out there now.
Maybe ask your GC manager if there are any Kronos being brought in. I have the 73 X and I play it every day. My wife does not complain but I know she feels a little neglected. as I said it has to be you that loves it not everyone else on the forum.

As for the expense, it is worth it for me I purchased the Kronos and my Mac using 18 month financing, I joke and tell people that is how I got my kids. And I tell them when they overhear me tell people that it is still not to late to exchange them.
Try the veal.

Good Luck in whatever you do. I hope you at least get a chance to try a Kronos.

[MarPabl]

So you're looking for comparison between Kurzweil PC3Le and Korg Kronos... Have you read those threads?
- Dumping korg for Kurzweil
- Krome vs Kurzweil PC3LE

Do you need additional points for comparison? Regarding sounds, I'm sure you've already watched this:
Test Drive: Synth Giants Korg Kronos, Kurzweil PC3k and the Nord Stage 2

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/uX0aEnasa6Q" frameborder="0"></iframe>

[pedro5]

A few reasons for choosing an X Kronos....

On the plus side it has an additional memory card,(an essential part,in my opinion)...plus a second hard drive.

The negative side, the standard model may develop some problems,so you will need to be prepared to have it repaired.
Not any real hardship taking that route(you may be lucky anyway)as long it doesn't present too much hassle etc.

If you do choose a standard model,I would advise you try to get the memory expansion board fitted prior to delivery, via your dealer if possible.
(The costs are minimal at that stage,but would be more expensive at a later date).

I went this route myself when buying the K73 and no costs were passed onto me.....yes, free !!
At that time a memory installation charge would have been £20.....but that didn't include transportation etc.
In my case,Korg UK already had an expanded instrument in their own stock and was a simple direct delivery to me.

Both the memory card and second hard drive installation can be done by a competent owner (many have),but it could invalidate your warranty and Korg do not recommend doing so.

By all means try before you buy,if you can.....but,the Kronos has a lot of positive things going for it and will provide many hours of pleasure with music making.

Good Luck.

[flemmings27]

Good Luck in whatever you do. I hope you at least get a chance to try a Kronos.

Thanks Diego - I have had one little play on the Kronos, but didn't have the manuals with me at the time, so I was sort of in the dark with some of the stuff I was doing. I would like the opportunity to compare the Kurz against the Kronos, and no one within 400 miles of here has a Kurz in stock, even though when you go to Kurz's website, the sites says that Store X or Y has one. I like all the options/sounds, etc that the Kronos has, but just not sure I need THAT much, including the price, for what I'm doing. In any case, I'll make a few more trips to mess around on the Kronos and will take the guides with me on an Ipad to see some things in action.

[flemmings27]

So you're looking for comparison between Kurzweil PC3Le and Korg Kronos... Have you read those threads?
- Dumping korg for Kurzweil
- Krome vs Kurzweil PC3LE

Do you need additional points for comparison? Regarding sounds, I'm sure you've already watched this:
Test Drive: Synth Giants Korg Kronos, Kurzweil PC3k and the Nord Stage 2

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/uX0aEnasa6Q" frameborder="0"></iframe>

MarPabl, thank you for this excellent post with the threads! Re: the Video - yes I watched this shootout between the Nord/Kurz/Kronos before, but I watched it again just now, b/c I've done some other reading of manuals, and posting in this board. Watching it the 2nd time didn't do much good, as I had the same issue with the video as the 1st time I watched it, and that is this. Whereas the 3 players are using sounds that are similar at least in terms of category, they really are different sounds, so it's difficult to compare how the 3 boards sound on the sounds they chose b/c they are different sounds. I watched this video, as well as some others about the Kurz PC3 LE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0IJ8SIj9lCI), and although it's short, the guy appears to be choosing piano sounds that are theoretically, the same (or very close sounds), and for me, the Kurz has a much more authentic (true to form piano) sound than the Kronos. In other videos I've watched of the Kurz PC3LE in comparison to other keyboards, I always find the Kurz's sounds to be superior in richness, breadth, and more true to form interest. This is not true for every single sound in them, but for enough that my ears tend to love the Kurz.

RE: the discussion thread you posted - that was great! Unfortunately, it keeps me in the same spot as I am now -- not ready to make a decision - - because a lot of things that were said pro and con about the Kurz PC3LE and the Kronos are laying across the 2-3 issues that made me move from having my eye trained on the Kurz PC3LE to the Kronos, even though I was a bit lost on what some of the particulars mean with regard to the synth engines, etc, in each board. Despite that, the bottom line is that my trouble spots in terms of making a decision on what really are, in some ways, 2 different beasts, are the following:

1. Do I want a massively powerful workstation that has great presets and is also easy (at least upon first approach) to program and is more modern in terms of touch screen, etc.

2. Do I want a board that, at least in terms of the PC3LE, has some limitations, but whose presets I find to be fantastic sounding, but will have a much higher learning curve in terms of deeper programming

3. If I plan to use the board live, which keyboard is easier/better to use, etc.

4. Given 1-3 above, which board (Kurz PC3LE or Kronos), will really be the best board if I only plan to have 1 keyboard and which is most likely to bet the one horse that can do many jobs board. I'm not a keyboard player by trade (and intend this mostly for writing purposes, but do not want to rule out live playing purposes), so it's unlikely that I will necessarily be driven to buy different keyboards by the same discerning ears and/or programming desires as those of you who play keyboard regularly.

I'll keep thinking/reading/playing about this. Am leaning toward Kronos, but the problem is, as I think I've said before, no one around here has a Kurzweil PC3 or LE for that matter, so getting my hands on one to see if I like it in the flesh is problematic for right now.

Thanks again!

[flemmings27]

By all means try before you buy,if you can.....but,the Kronos has a lot of positive things going for it and will provide many hours of pleasure with music making.

Good Luck.

Thanks, Pedro, for your suggestions re: the X !

[Ojustaboo]

Personally regardless of all my gripes I listed earlier, I love my Kronos more and more the more I learn about it.

With regards to the X, if you are buying the 73 or 88 versions, chances are if you buy the non X version you will be fine, but there are still a few old stock ones with the keybed problem (although less and less get reported) hence I could not guarantee that if you bought an original, you might not get the keybed problem, hence would recommend the X (all the X were/are manufactured since the keybed problem on the 73/88 was fixed)

But the problem isn't there for the 61 version as its not a weighted keybed, so if your looking for the 61 version, it should be fine whether you get the original or the X.

You can probably get your dealer to do a deal where they upgrade the non X to the X spec (more memory, larger SSD drive) for very little extra cost, or if money's tight, simply get it upgraded at a later date (although unless you did this yourself which might invalidate your warranty, it will be cheaper at point of purchase).

It makes much more financial sense to buy an original and get a bigger SSD and more memory put in than it does buying the X.

Obviously we all have different tastes and needs but for me the Kronos just gets better every day.

Pedros comments on problems with the standard version, I presume he's referring to just the 73 and 88 versions.

Oh, not that it makes any difference, but with the X, you get one larger SSD, not two SSD drives, if you upgrade the original, they stick a second SSD drive in there.

[pedro5]

Thanks for the correction Joe.....the X has only one SSD and expanded standard models have the additional one....

flemmings27
My understanding regarding your actual playing requirements would favour the 61 key rather than any hammer type keybed,which could minimize any chance
of the keybed problems associated with the 73 and 82 versions and of course be comparatively cheaper.
So,I do agree with Ojustaboo that buying an original 61 then adding the memory and second drive would be a good route to consider,if it could be done via the dealer,as mentioned previously.

As owners of a Kronos,we could be a little biased with choices between other instruments, in my case I haven't made any real comparisons,having bought my own simply for the piano voice and the workstation capabilities etc.
Despite the fault,I am happy with what I have and am continuously discovering many other things that enhances the instrument as a whole.

It is difficult to offer advice regarding which to purchase,obviously,we can only tell you of our own experience,in a constructive way.

Best Wishes.

[Bugra Ekuklu]

Thanks Bugra - you and a person on here called Pedro recommended the X - why it over the other? The Kronos is already slightly out of the price range I wanted to spend. I agree with you that the German Grands sound fantastic on the Kronos. And, just to clarify, in terms of the other keyboards I've been looking at, it's been somewhat of apples and oranges, b/c the board I've most considered is the Kurz PC3LE series (a lesser version of the PC3K), but given the costs of Kurz's, the the PC3LE is not that much less than a Kronos, but when you jump up to the PC3K, then I think you are in the range of a Kronos X. My eye was initially zero-ing in on the PC3LE, as the one that had a lot of basic sounds that I really thought sounded good (at least from Kurz's site where you can listen and to the "shootout" type videos where people play a couple different keyboads. As I was telling Diego 5150, I haven't been able to find a Kurz PC3LE in the flesh in a local shop, so I have no idea what it's like to be hands on with it. I came onto the Kronos after doing more research and finding that it is available at a place where I can put hands on.

It is hard to choose best one, but there are some serious differences between those.

Before I bought mine Kronos X73, I had thought screen makes no difference. Today it is completely different, now I realized I can't use even Motif's screen, I think there is no need to think Kurzweil's one.

Set lists ease your work if you want to play live without hanging out with workstation stuff. Also touchscreen, aha.

Balanced outputs came are not necessary at first, however it makes serious difference, especially when gigging (long cables, noise of radio etc.)

A/D D/A converters... It is a hidden feature, but you have to consider. If you are going to use its audio inputs, you have to use good converters. Korg has 5 times more qualified converters than Yamaha and Kurzweil, IMHO. I tried both.

Keybed. PC3K series feature beginner-level keybeds at its 6 and 7 models. If you are planning to buy PC3K8, it is a good keybed. RH3 and TP40L have its own cons-pros, consider them.
(Little postscript; Piano is better at TP40L and RH3 features more synth-piano balanced play. If you are close with organs, you should decide RH3.)


Good luck,

Buğra