Warranty service incomplete in week#8- start to worry?

[Ojustaboo]

I'd like to see an official response from Korg on this issue

not realistic

1) this is a message board. Not an official Korg site

I am well aware of that.

It stands to reason that common sense says Korg employees and Korg management will read this forum, if I ran Korg, it would be one of the main places I kept an eye on to see what my customers think of my products.

I'm constantly told what a small company Korg is, that being the case, it's even more likely that reports of customer dissatisfaction when read by the Korg employees who frequent this site at their own free will, would filter through to senior management.

RichF posted officially in this forum on behalf of Korg about the Keyboard issue, so they can decide to instruct their staff that visit here, to comment officially if they wish.

2) the owner declined to mention the retailer or make any statement about their involvement. In the US, it can happen that the retailer participates in a solution since the same retailer enjoyed a profit from the sale. Retailers can choose to offer various resources to help satisfy a customer in the interim.

My comments were not relating to this particular case, but all Kronos problems in the past few months.

3) the independently owned service center did not carry supply stock in the circuit boards.

Irrelevant, Korg have offices in the US as per the staff that visit this forum, they also have an official service centre in the UK.

A major country like the USA, Korg should have a stock of parts for their current flagship model (in fact all current models) and if a service centre needs a part, it should be a simple matter of them phoning up Korg US and the part should be dispatched within 24 hrs.

If it's a part that rarely breaks, then Korg don't need to keep a huge stock of them, but should still keep a few, it its a part with a higher than average fault, then they should keep a bigger stock.

It's common sense, not rocket science.

Any service centre in the EU that doesn't have a Korg spares dept in their country should be able to phone up say Korg UK and get the part dispatched within 24 hrs.

I phoned Korg UK up for a Triton extreme circuit board last year, it was at my door the following day.

Only a couple of months ago someone PM'd me about a part they couldn't get hold of in Canada after they saw a thread of mine on the Trident Extreme forum last year. They were told the part is not available, I told them the part number and to contact Korg UK, here is part of their response (May 16th 2013).

It seem like I am in luck getting that part. Thanks for your thread. I called Korg UK today and they ordered me one. Hopefully it will come in a couple weeks

So Korg UK ordered a part Korg UK didn't have in stock and hope to get it to Canada within a few weeks for a machine that hasn't been made for years, that's an expected delay for a Trident Extreme that's been out of production so long, when the part has to be specially ordered.

But why does someone in Canada get fobbed off that they aren't available and have to go to Korg UK to get one ordered? (and people in the US have been told the same from Korg USA about the same part)

But I would expect Korg UK to have parts for their current models in stock.


I'm going to be repeating myself here, I constantly say that it's not that faults happen, and I acknowledge that those experiencing faults are a very small number, but almost without exception, when they do happen, people go through hell trying to get it fixed.

I've got a bit of spare time today, so I've just gone back as far as December 2012 and quickly looked at thread titles in the Kronos section for those having hardware problems. I've gone back the same amount of time in the Keybed sticky thread (December 2012).

I honestly have not found ONE thread where someone had a problem, took it to a service centre or to Korg themselves and felt the experience was satisfactory. There may be one but it wasn't obvious from the thread titles.

I also completely ignored people with fan issues as I only have so much spare time.

Below are peoples experiences.

http://www.korgforums.com/forum/phpBB2/ ... highlight=

June 7th 2013

I called yesterday and they said to check today. Now I am hearing it could be several more weeks, and that they are at the mercy of Korg!

...........................

June 11th 2013

It is on back order, and there are no estimated times for arrival! We are going on 2 months now

http://www.korgforums.com/forum/phpBB2/ ... highlight=

April 12th 2013

On March 5th I took the Kronos to the nearest Korg authorized service center (100 miles round trip). Yesterday I FINALLY received conformation that the contact strips did, in fact, need replacing and were on order. Looks like it'll be at least another week for I get it back.

April 24th 2013

Got a call today from the service center telling me Korg just received the strips. They have to be shipped and then installed in the Kronos. Says it'll be another two weeks.

http://www.korgforums.com/forum/phpBB2/ ... c&start=15

June 28th 2013

I just received my board back, almost one month to the day.

http://www.korgforums.com/forum/phpBB2/ ... hp?t=80499

April 7th 2013

But mostly because for me, the worst part of my experience with Kronos is the horrible handling by Korg of the (in)famous keybed cut off issue, present in all the Kronos models I have the opportunity to see and play (I was at the main Korg warehouse in my country several times in the search for a working unit) and not only the 1% Korg acknowledge till today.

I ended up having 4 different Korg 73 Kronos models, all of them with issues, even had two of them repaired by Korg technicians, only to find out that the fix was not positive or if it was, then left the keybed with a different key velocity all across the entire keybed range, and resulting in a keybed stiff as hell por perform, too, as some examples I can give.

It all let me more than 8 months without any keyboard to play after spending near 3800 bucks in a keyboard I didnt have, nor know when will I have a proper working unit, and seeing no other response from Korg to the problem than "Lets try with another replacement and see what happens".

And from the RH3 Keybed Sticky

May 4th 2013

I bought a KRONOS 73 last November via mail order from an authorized dealer in New York. The unit immediately started exhibiting the bouncy key/cutoff notes problem. I exchanged it for another unit, but the replacement the dealer sent also had the problem. Both units have serial numbers in the 20xx range.

I left the second unit at an authorized repair center. Eight weeks later they notified me that they'd replaced the key contacts. I picked up the unit and took it home.

Almost immediately after setting it up and starting to play I noticed that it was still cutting off notes.

April 13th 2013

This is really annoying! My Kronos 88 arrived a few days ago from the second repair. This time we unpacked the K88 at the music store to check it out thoroughly. The first thing I noticed was that middle C still retriggered on key release, i.e. exactly as before. Further testing revealed that certain keys still had very uneven velocity response compared to most other keys. So both faults that were supposed to be fixed by the second repair remained, even though the repair shop claimed (by email) that another contact strip exchange had been made and that their testing indicated that the keybed was working as it should!

Feb 3rd 2013 (no longer a Kronos owner)

Well, it (Kronos X) crashed right in the middle of church service. Totally locked up. Song and a half, that are heavy keyboard, sans keyboard.

Beyond ridiculous. Run, don't walk, from this product.

3rd unit (first two original, not X versions), and total of 4 other trips to shop to recap... Korg should be embarrassed.

Jan 17th 2013

My first two Kronos 88's had the keybed issue, but no problems with the fans. Then I got Kronos X 88, which had the loud fan issue. The loud fan issue is not limited to the 61, or to the original Kronos.

I've returned all three units. Very discouraging. Do I try for a fourth?

Dec 15th 2012

So Nov. 4th sent the Kronos in to Sweetwater for repair. Bad part is they would not pay for shipping it to them. I'm out $75 and change.

Ok fine. When I shipped it I was guaranteed they had the parts. Turns out they did not have the parts.

Finally got it back on Nov. 27th. Great!

Their service order says they replaced the rubber key contacts per Korg Service bulletin #3. And also it was TESTED!

I unpack it, get it on my stand, hook it all up and start to play.

Sounds great, but only for 5 minutes. Then I'm getting muted notes that won't sound an octave below middle C. Then an octave above middle C the D note won't sound at all, then the Eb right next to the D is sustaining the sound. The key itself comes back up fine but the sound is still playing. Try it again on another program. Same thing. Arggggghhhhhh!

I call Sweetwater. Did they actually TEST this? Yes they did. Ok they said fine. Send it back. So I did. They paid the shipping this time. I asked PLEASE be sure someone who actually plays a keyboard test this. Off it goes.

Waited another 2 weeks. Got a call that it was finished. Here is what they found and did.

When it got to them it would not boot up. They concluded the main board was fried. Also they found the keyscan board was bad. Sooooo they took a new Kronos 88 and swapped the main board, keybed and keyscan and placed them in mine. And the service manager who is a player tested it for around 45 minutes. Actually played it.
Got it back on Monday Dec. 9th

In my opinion the size of the company is irrelevant, you sell something expensive and popular, you make sure procedures are in place to keep the customer happy.

Something is simply not going right with peoples repairs and if mine went wrong, I think I would rather void the warranty and fix myself than trust sending it to Korg UK for repair.

I'm not the only one to say I am never buying another new Korg product again, they've already lost out on my buying the ms20 mini, if they bring out a successor to the Kronos thats worth getting, I shall wait a good couple of years until they have proven themselves to be problem free and appear on the 2nd hand market at a much reduced cost and buy then.

Of course, Korg could change my opinion by telling us they are as concerned as many of us are about what we've been through, and how they are implementing changes with regards to spares accessible to authorised service centres etc, but apparently that an unrealistic wish of mine

[GregC]

I'd like to see an official response from Korg on this issue

not realistic

1) this is a message board. Not an official Korg site

I am well aware of that.

It stands to reason that common sense says Korg employees and Korg management will read this forum, if I ran Korg, it would be one of the main places I kept an eye on to see what my customers think of my products.

I'm constantly told what a small company Korg is, that being the case, it's even more likely that reports of customer dissatisfaction when read by the Korg employees who frequent this site at their own free will, would filter through to senior management.

RichF posted officially in this forum on behalf of Korg about the Keyboard issue, so they can decide to instruct their staff that visit here, to comment officially if they wish.


Of course, Korg could change my opinion by telling us they are as concerned as many of us are about what we've been through, and how they are implementing changes with regards to spares accessible to authorised service centres etc, but apparently that an unrealistic wish of mine

what was RichF's exact statement ? It was some time ago and I don't recall his wording

[Ojustaboo]

PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 9:15 pm

Hi everyone,

Thanks for your patience. Again, I'm posting this on behalf of Korg Inc.:

We have been hard at work investigating the small percentage of Kronos 73 and 88 users who are experiencing a double-triggering issue. We are pleased to announce that we have successfully tested a solution, and we will be including this adjustment in future Kronos production. We will continue our analysis, but we would like to make this solution available to users who are affected. Please contact your local Korg distributor if you are experiencing this behavior, and please also note that there is no benefit for this solution being applied if your Kronos 73 or 88 is not one of the small percentage that is exhibiting this issue.

Thanks,
-Rich
_________________
Richard Formidoni
Product Training Manager
Korg USA, Inc.

[GregC]

PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 9:15 pm

Hi everyone,

Thanks for your patience. Again, I'm posting this on behalf of Korg Inc.:

We have been hard at work investigating the small percentage of Kronos 73 and 88 users who are experiencing a double-triggering issue. We are pleased to announce that we have successfully tested a solution, and we will be including this adjustment in future Kronos production. We will continue our analysis, but we would like to make this solution available to users who are affected. Please contact your local Korg distributor if you are experiencing this behavior, and please also note that there is no benefit for this solution being applied if your Kronos 73 or 88 is not one of the small percentage that is exhibiting this issue.

Thanks,
-Rich
_________________
Richard Formidoni
Product Training Manager
Korg USA, Inc.

was this satisfactory to you ?

[Ojustaboo]

PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 9:15 pm

Hi everyone,

Thanks for your patience. Again, I'm posting this on behalf of Korg Inc.:

We have been hard at work investigating the small percentage of Kronos 73 and 88 users who are experiencing a double-triggering issue. We are pleased to announce that we have successfully tested a solution, and we will be including this adjustment in future Kronos production. We will continue our analysis, but we would like to make this solution available to users who are affected. Please contact your local Korg distributor if you are experiencing this behavior, and please also note that there is no benefit for this solution being applied if your Kronos 73 or 88 is not one of the small percentage that is exhibiting this issue.

Thanks,
-Rich
_________________
Richard Formidoni
Product Training Manager
Korg USA, Inc.

was this satisfactory to you ?

I didn't own a Kronos at the time.

I was happy they acknowledged there was a problem and that they had a fix, hence a few months later I became a Kronos owner, I was not happy to find out they hadn't done enough to stop faulty Kronos being sent out 9 months after this announcement as I received a faulty one (sent directly from Korg UK, not old stock in a store)

Or to put it another way, words without action is pointless and does more harm than good, words with action where the customer can see a real difference in the way a company treats their customer, doesn't take that long to rebuild customer confidence in a company.

A statement admitting there has been unacceptable mistakes and huge changes are underway such as details about authorised service centres having quick access to spare parts etc, it would soon change many people's perception of Korg. For the better.

Had I been a Kronos owner at the time of Rich's post, while the announcement would have been welcome, the previous months of silence would not have and I know that the way they handled the problem has turned a LOT of people off being Korg customers in the future. But if I had have been a customer at the time, I wouldn't be a korg owner now as I wouldn't have put up with the silence as long as many others chose to do, I would have returned it to my retailer and gone with another manufacture.

[GregC]

was this satisfactory to you ?

I didn't own a Kronos at the time.

I was happy they acknowledged there was a problem and that they had a fix, hence a few months later I became a Kronos owner, I was not happy to find out they hadn't done enough to stop faulty Kronos being sent out 9 months after this announcement as I received a faulty one (sent directly from Korg UK, not old stock in a store)

Or to put it another way, words without action is pointless and does more harm than good, words with action where the customer can see a real difference in the way a company treats their customer, doesn't take that long to rebuild customer confidence in a company.

A statement admitting there has been unacceptable mistakes and huge changes are underway such as details about authorised service centres having quick access to spare parts etc, it would soon change many people's perception of Korg. For the better.

Had I been a Kronos owner at the time of Rich's post, while the announcement would have been welcome, the previous months of silence would not have and I know that the way they handled the problem has turned a LOT of people off being Korg customers in the future. But if I had have been a customer at the time, I wouldn't be a korg owner now as I wouldn't have put up with the silence as long as many others chose to do, I would have returned it to my retailer and gone with another manufacture.

Thats a fair answer. Sounds like 'unsatisfactory' to me

[PatrickD]

You know back in the day of service center excellence of which I was proud to be an employee of just such a one with Sony Corporation of America Service Company.
When we received a unit in for repair, if we exceeded 14day turnaround time due to a back ordered part or a repeat fix we called the owner of the unit and gave him a consumption date. That meant that if your Sony item was not fixed or on a return trip to the service center due to other related issues and we didn't get it fixed, SONY REPLACED THE ITEM at the discretion of the manager of the service center. No matter what the cost if that sucker was under warranty it was replaced at no cost to the customer. Often times we replaced out of warranty items as well.
We had 27 SONY owned Service Centers during that time. Sony did more business in the 1980s than any other electronics company in the world. Our service level was second to none. The service company was just one division in a worldwide list that would stagger the mind just how big they were.
My point is that's all gone now. Japan based companies gave up saving face and making sure the customer was cared for. It costs too much and thats the process being described here. And its Scary! I hope things work out for you but if it were me Id be howling at KORG USA big time.

[GregC]

You know back in the day of service center excellence of which I was proud to be an employee of just such a one with Sony Corporation of America Service Company.
When we received a unit in for repair, if we exceeded 14day turnaround time due to a back ordered part or a repeat fix we called the owner of the unit and gave him a consumption date. That meant that if your Sony item was not fixed or on a return trip to the service center due to other related issues and we didn't get it fixed, SONY REPLACED THE ITEM at the discretion of the manager of the service center. No matter what the cost if that sucker was under warranty it was replaced at no cost to the customer. Often times we replaced out of warranty items as well.

Patrick, I am going to stop you in your tracks. I worked for Sony for 9 years.

During that time, I purchased a new 32" XBR which was a $1500 item. The power switch failed at month 14. Since this was beyond the 1 year warranty, I would have to pay $650 for a new power switch.

If you were there at the time, Sony had the misfortune ( and so did I) of having a defective batch of power switches in the XBR line.

The service manager in San Bruno did not extend the warranty or give me any additional consideration. It was either pay $650 or have a worthless shell of an XBR.

I do agree with you. Its all gone.

[Ojustaboo]

It's the little things that get me, Dan mentioned on January 30th how Korg.com had the wrong midi driver, its now July, the same wrong midi driver is still there when it should now be r6 (note, I'm not blaming Dan)

A 5 second job for the site admin yet it's been like this for over 5 months.



Posted Jan 30th

What version is your Korg MIDI driver?
Version 1.1.4(r3), which is the one available on korg.com, isn't supporting Windows 8 as far as I know.
Version 1.1.4(r4) does support Windows 8.
The English version of that driver was available on korg.co.uk, but that site got moved to korg.com.
I have no idea where to get the English version now.

The Japanese version still is available though.
Check this post on how to download it.

I emailed Korg UK and they are getting the kronos section updated. But they said the driver is correct under other sections such as http://korg.com/nanoseries2

It's here, for instance:

http://www.korg.co.uk/downloads/driver/dl_driver.asp

Not sure why korg.com/kronos only has the earlier version; I'm checking now.

- Dan

[PatrickD]

Greg
You aren't stopping me and Im sorry for your experience but I am simply stating what I saw happen over and over again. San Bruno had a jerk for a manager if you were 2 months out of warranty and he did what your saying. I see that as completely without any reasonable common business sense or company policy at the time. This was insane because all you had to do then was get a hold of Corporate West Regional in your case Costa Mesa which, if you worked there 9 years in a service center, you had to know what climbing the answer ladder was. The squeaky wheel got oiled big time if you squeaked in the right ear and that's a fact. I kept some of the pink copy service orders just for the humorous aspects in terms of the money spent replacing with consumption.
I cant speak for him or you but my premise was and is KORG is living for the profit line and the idea that its being unnoticed by the keyboard world is going to drown them. We shall see. In any event keep makin music if your keyboard works!!