Sampler?…………..YES !!!!!

kenackr · Post by **kenackr** » Thu May 19, 2016 5:52 pm

The Quick Guide that came with my unit says in the first line of page 5 (English version) that the unit has an "integrated sampler and sound editor allows to fill the vast user memory with newly created or imported sounds."

Does that mean that I can sample sounds from my Korg: Oasys or Wavestation, etc. and import them into and save them to the Pa 4X? If so, where can I find more information on that process?

kenackr · Post by **kenackr** » Fri May 20, 2016 6:35 pm

The answer to my questions can be found in the downloadable Pa4X PDF Users Manual on line at Korg. Skimming the manual shows several hundred pages of detailed procedures about sampling sounds to be used inside the unit.

The up shot is that sounds of all types can be sampled, trimmed, smoothed out, looped (or not), and molded into new sounds for use as you desire. That is how you can grow the number of samples & sounds in your Pa4X to fill up the memory as much as you want.

I see it as a means to "import" sounds from other Korg keyboards into the Pa4X so I don't have to change to another unit in the middle of a recording to play a particular sound I might want from another keyboard.

Post by **Sharp** » Fri May 20, 2016 11:37 pm

Yep, it can import Triton format KMP/KSF, so basically that means it's also compatible with any sample data you have loaded into your OASYS.

Only catch is there is no KSC file support so you have to manually load the multisamples one by one.

It even reads AKAI format.

Regards
Sharp.

Bachus · Post by **Bachus** » Sat May 21, 2016 12:24 pm

Sharp wrote:Yep, it can import Triton format KMP/KSF, so basically that means it's also compatible with any sample data you have loaded into your OASYS.

Only catch is there is no KSC file support so you have to manually load the multisamples one by one.

It even reads AKAI format.

Regards
Sharp.

To bad that there is only 400/800 Mb for expansion sounds, while the build in sounds use sample streaming, this is not available for user sounds(yet)

kbrkr · Post by **kbrkr** » Sat May 21, 2016 1:30 pm

Ah, but V2.0 of the operating system now offers sample compression which will really economize the sample memory.

Post by **Sharp** » Sat May 21, 2016 1:50 pm

kbrkr wrote:Ah, but V2.0 of the operating system now offers sample compression which will really economize the sample memory.

True, but that's still way off what streaming can do. Compression is running at 2:1, where streaming could get you close to 10:1

Meaning that 400MB of RAM could be used to stream upwards of 4GB of samples.

Given that the Pa4X is streaming it's own internal factory sounds, it seems odd that KORG would use compression on end user samples and not continue with streaming.

Maybe it will come in a later OS update, just like it did for the KRONOS. Then again, maybe not.

Regards
Sharp.

Bachus · Post by **Bachus** » Sat May 21, 2016 4:52 pm

Sharp wrote:
kbrkr wrote:Ah, but V2.0 of the operating system now offers sample compression which will really economize the sample memory.
True, but that's still way off what streaming can do. Compression is running at 2:1, where streaming could get you close to 10:1

Meaning that 400MB of RAM could be used to stream upwards of 4GB of samples.

Given that the Pa4X is streaming it's own internal factory sounds, it seems odd that KORG would use compression on end user samples and not continue with streaming.

Maybe it will come in a later OS update, just like it did for the KRONOS. Then again, maybe not.

Regards
Sharp.

The seccond they do this, is the moment the pa4x definately relegates my Tyros 5 to 2nd place...

And if you combine compression with streaming, might even be close to 10 GB.. Tough i dont know if those can be combined...

Post by **Sharp** » Sat May 21, 2016 8:42 pm

Compression and streaming is certainly possible on the PC.

Even Ogg lossy compression at 12:1 sounds really great because each sample is only a note at a certain frequency, not a song that requires the entire spectrum.

It's very hard to tell the difference between the wave and ogg file.

Regards
Sharp.

musiccankill · Post by **musiccankill** » Sat May 21, 2016 10:05 pm

I don't think user streamed samples can be done the way the pa4x os in now...
it needs total redesign as the factory streaming is based on the fact that the samples will NOT change so theres no need to modify the attacks file that is loaded into ram..In case this file get corrupted or something the pa4x recreates it at booting stage which takes several minutes...
Now think that you have 1gig of samples and in order to add only one sample you will have to wait several minutes for the attacks file to be recreated to include the attack of the new sample and also the bin file on flash to be edited to include the new sample from start to end...Its not practical as to add 10 samples (not multisamples) you will spend half an hour or so, so it needs redesign...
I doubt they will do it , except if they have already programmed a new sample manager system we don't know yet..!

Post by **Sharp** » Sun May 22, 2016 9:41 am

musiccankill wrote:I don't think user streamed samples can be done the way the pa4x os in now...
it needs total redesign as the factory streaming is based on the fact that the samples will NOT change so theres no need to modify the attacks file that is loaded into ram..In case this file get corrupted or something the pa4x recreates it at booting stage which takes several minutes...
Now think that you have 1gig of samples and in order to add only one sample you will have to wait several minutes for the attacks file to be recreated to include the attack of the new sample and also the bin file on flash to be edited to include the new sample from start to end...Its not practical as to add 10 samples (not multisamples) you will spend half an hour or so, so it needs redesign...
I doubt they will do it , except if they have already programmed a new sample manager system we don't know yet..!

KORG have already resolved all that. You only need to look at the KRONOS to see none of that's an issue.

That being said, the KRONOS is a full blown Linux PC where the Pa4X is not. So I would assume the KRONOS CPU is a many many times more powerful. It could be a simple case that the Pa4X will never stream end user samples simply because it doesn't have the power to do so.

Regards
Sharp.

musiccankill · Post by **musiccankill** » Sun May 22, 2016 1:04 pm

Sharp wrote: KORG have already resolved all that. You only need to look at the KRONOS to see none of that's an issue.

That being said, the KRONOS is a full blown Linux PC where the Pa4X is not. So I would assume the KRONOS CPU is a many many times more powerful. It could be a simple case that the Pa4X will never stream end user samples simply because it doesn't have the power to do so.

Regards
Sharp.

Kronos Os is running native on linux ,its made by korg japan and the os was ready to make all these cause it was designed to do so from the beggining!
The pa os is also running on linux now but it is designed and made by korg Italy and it is something like emulated as it is still the old os started with pa1x which wasn't linux.Thats why the interface of pa4x and pa300/600/900/3xle is low res too!It is 320x240(the native display resolution of the older models) but stretched to fit 800x400...
Streaming IS possible i believe.Compression needs more cpu power as math functions are needed for it where streaming requires just DMA transfers between its hardware as far as i know (i am not korg though, as you know, to be 100% sure).
Also the cpu/dsp is powerfull enough to handle more than these!
wish they add user streaming but it seems like its never going to happen on 4x as the development cost would be high and there will be no new things to add to pa5x or whatever it will be called then..
In my opinion the pa4x is a powerful arranger as it is (without streaming), way better than all the older models and when all the bugs will get fixed it will stay at the top with big difference till a new model comes out!
I am not going to compare it with other brands as i haven't gone with them deep enough to have a full opinion!

Kind regards,
Theo

kbrkr · Post by **kbrkr** » Sun May 22, 2016 5:36 pm

Oh I agree, would LOVE to see streaming on the Pa4x. I have the Kronos 2 and I'm able to run HUGE sample libraries (Pianos) with the only limit being the SSD!

If the Pa4x had this feature, it would be absolute killer. I would also love to see compatibility with Kronos samples!!!!! Yikes. That would be sublime!