Fantom-G sequencer specs

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elvisjohndowson
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Fantom-G sequencer specs

Post by elvisjohndowson »

From http://www.rolandus.com/products/produc ... arentId=83
Power Sequencer Onboard
The Fantom-G is the first Roland instrument to feature Roland’s newly designed power sequencer. In conjunction with the large-size LCD, this pro-level composition tool provides 128 tracks (including 24 audio tracks) in a fully intergraded audio/MIDI graphical environment. A mouse can be also incorporated for computer-like speed and ease. Other convenient features include combo XLR and TRS connector, phantom power for condenser mics, Hi-Z input for guitar and bass, and line input.
The specs look impressive.. 128 MIDI tracks, etc. Seems to completely blow away the OASYS sequencer and make it look archaic.

Has anyone actually used the Fantom-G sequencer?
Last edited by elvisjohndowson on Tue Apr 29, 2008 6:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Kevin Nolan »

But you can only record MIDI and Audio into RAM - there's no HD or other media recording. MIDI-wise it's impressive, Audio wise it's poor, arguably under selling what a workstation can and perhaps should provide today, if the workstation paradigm is to survive.

Kevin.
elvisjohndowson
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Post by elvisjohndowson »

I just checked out the videos, the ARX interface is a generation ahead, the 3D sound visualization and editing interface is new, sort of like what Karma is to rhythmic sequences, the ARX 3D interface is to sound synthesis.

The price point is also interesting, USD$2900 for the G-7, compared to the OASYS 76 USD$6000 price point. You probably will have a situation where a lot of people will probably settle for a Fantom G-7 because of the overal features and lower price point.

Also, considering the USB audio / MIDI interface, the VST/AU plugin (like the Virus TI), etc, it's appears to host a whole set of useable elements, things that the OASYS has ignored.

I mean if you look at it, Korg could have done all this, but they probably didn't have much competition at the time, and appear to focus more on the synthesis engines than the host platform operating system. Or more appropriately, the Korg US R&D team is a more innovative bunch than their Japanese counterparts.

Nothing better than a little competition putting Korg on the alert and giving the Japanese guys a wake up call!! :)

I guess Roland seems to have acquired an infusion of new technologies and capabilities and are offering it at a lower price point, so they might fare better in volume sales. I guess we'll have to wait and see!
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Post by Mike Conway »

No question, the G's MIDI sequencer is nicely spec'd, but it is like the polar opposite of the OASYS, with shortcomings on the other end. By that, I mean you can do certain things better with each unit. Too bad, they aren't married!

The actual sequencer seems great, but as Kevin said, the audio has workflow and space limitations - I believe about 500 megs is the limit, per project.

The OASYS can move large amounts of audio and samples very quickly, but audio is still 16 bit.

One of the guys at NAMM said that the G couldn't record your voice and a guitar at the same time - and run them to separate busses! WTF? The flipside is that the OASYS bus system is amazing - you can reroute completed tracks and re-effect to your heart's desire, but the sequencer is only 16 track and 192ppqn.

The G has 22 FX processors. But, from what I'm hearing, you can't chain several MFX, like you can on the OASYS (where you can chain all 16!). From the Roland forums:
The Fantom G, although it has per part MFX, doesn't allow you to chain any more effects blocks than the X

As pointed out by Dan and some others, G synthesis (including ARX cards) is sample based - no VA's, FM or Physical Modelling. The ROM is much like the Triton Extreme, in that most of it comes from SRX cards' sample material.

If Roland had more than 2 ARX slots and some of those cards were VAs and other synths, it would stand closer to the OASYS and its synth engines, but.....no cigar! I've heard some sound demos and they sound just like my old Fantom, though I'm sure the resolution is better.

Still, I would like to have that V-Drums card, and that sequencer really looks killer. Elvis, weren't you looking for drums? The ARX cards add more polyphony and effects, which is very nice. The screen graphics are very very sexy, but it isn't a touchscreen. (like I said, each has something the other doesn't.)

That's the end of my opinionated post. It's all based on reading, some demos and hear-say. I will audition a G, myself.
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Post by elvisjohndowson »

Hi Mike,
I just placed an order for FXpansion's BFD2 drums yesterday, it was about USD$410.

What I'm planning to do is to select drum sounds from BFD2, export it as a WAVE file (4 articulations) and create a drum kit on the OASYS, with each key mapped to a drum sound with 4 WAVE samples corresponding to the 4 articulations. I plan to create drum patterns using the sequencer's pattern editor.

At this stage in the workflow, I have two choices:
a. build a song using the sequencer, using additional patterns for the bass, chord, lead etc.
b. create a combi for facilitating a live performance by export the MIDI data to the Karma Oasys software, to create a user GEs. This step is admittedley a lot of work.

If the end objective was to create a combi, it might prove useful to use the sequencer as a scratch pad, to
a. build the individual patterns
b. select the individual program sounds
c. setup the IFX, TFX and MFX

tweak and fine tune the mix, and then create a combi.

Looking at the Fantom-G and the OASYS, it would appear that

a. Fantom-G is relatively cheaper and has a lot of usable elements (good GUI for sounding edits, et) , but lacks the depth (bus routing capabilities, recording limitations, etc) which for some would be okay (hence the potential for more volume sales due to a lower price point) and

b. OASYS has the depth for a lot of elements, but lacks majorly in the sequencer department (no of tracks, seq resolution, etc), but is more expensive.

Either way you look at it, there are compromises on both platform with one being relatively cheaper with a broad selection of new capabilities but lacking depth, and the other being more expensive, again with a standard set of capabilities with depth, but those standard capabilities not necessarily being state of the art.

In the end, it would appear that even if you pay less money or more money, a user will have to compromise on something on both platforms.

Best regards,

Elvis
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mdh
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Post by mdh »

I think the Fantom G is aimed at the Triton not the OASYS, in which case it does make a compelling statement. I'm pretty sure the Triton Extreme pre-dates the OASYS and is basically the next step down. I was actually looking at one (being forced into more synth work than piano work) but heard the OASYS (me playing, not just a demo) and of course everything else sounded crap.
If Korg got the AL-1 & maybe LAC, and KARMA into a device, with perhaps a USB port & the ability to add more EXis via storage on that port, and a 4" colour LCD, that would be a pretty sweet upgrade for the Triton & take a shot back at this offering from Roland.

Of course they'd have to improve the sequencer... :wink: :lol:
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Post by Mike Conway »

elvisjohndowson wrote:In the end, it would appear that even if you pay less money or more money, a user will have to compromise on something on both platforms.
On the other hand, it could be a very good compliment to the OASYS. As someone who doesn't want to see the hardware sequencer go away, I'm pleased that Roland upped the ante.

Like I said, I need to see it for myself.
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OmarNoori
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Post by OmarNoori »

the fantom g sounds good, cant wait to get it :D
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Kontrol49
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Post by Kontrol49 »

Fantom G sequencer looks very cool,its showing exactly whats lacking with the Oasys,and what needs improving and Pretty Quickly if you ask me....The Hardware Workstation is starting a New chapter in user friendly and DAW type Interfaces,the Oasys has now become just an Expensive Sound Module because of this,it no longer holds a workstation image to me..and certainly not worthy of the price tag now..

I suspect the G is very similar in sequencing options as the MV8800,I'm truly Tempted and curious to see how it does weigh up,Because I have found a great working method with the MV,thats given me new Faith in Hardware sequencers,I'm sure Roland will have a Nice order Book sales for this for sure,certainly shows up the Oasys sequencer,when it costs a third of the Price..

Korgs Oasys sequencer needs seriously updating..the Sound Engines and various Plugs ins are no longer enough to hold its interest.
The Fantom G looks like it will be a Workstation Killer for Yamaha/Korg and any other workstation
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Davidb
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Post by Davidb »

Fantom G sequencer looks very cool,its showing exactly whats lacking with the Oasys,and what needs improving and Pretty Quickly if you ask me....
Being a devoted OASYS user myself, I cannot be more agree with that statement.
Kontrol49 wrote:The Hardware Workstation is starting a New chapter in user friendly and DAW type Interfaces,the Oasys has now become just an Expensive Sound Module because of this,it no longer holds a workstation image to me..and certainly not worthy of the price tag now..

I'm sure Roland will have a Nice order Book sales for this for sure,certainly shows up the Oasys sequencer,when it costs a third of the Price..

Korgs Oasys sequencer needs seriously updating...
The Fantom G looks like it will be a Workstation Killer for Yamaha/Korg and any other workstation
I fully subscribe everything you say here, which is the same I have posted before in this regard of the OASYS sequencer, lakustre for its time and age.

For those who do not know what we are talking about, look at these Fantom G screenshots. I dont want to post the images here directly, but you can see it yourself:

http://www.piaknow.com/thenewrolandfantomg.htm

Look carefully to the screens, mostly to the the Sequencer part of the Fantom G.

Look at the Edit screens/Microscop,
http://www.piaknow.com/Silly%20Pics/Fan ... it_gal.jpg

the drag funtinality in edit window,
http://www.piaknow.com/Silly%20Pics/Fan ... t_view.jpg

and the Step Recording screen,
http://www.piaknow.com/Silly%20Pics/Fan ... rd_gal.jpg

Apart from what it is shown, be aware of the lengh of the song in minutes and seconds, PPQ resolution, 128 MIDI tracks, etc.

Talking about MIDi, it certainly looks like a very complete, state of the art and user friendly sequencer for a workstation of today standards.
Last edited by Davidb on Thu May 01, 2008 11:30 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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D.
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Post by Mike Conway »

Davidb wrote:look at these Fantom G screenshots.
Yep, saw those on Harmony Central. Damn sexy!! The G's display design and sequencer raises the bar, which is a good example to set.
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OmarNoori
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Post by OmarNoori »

wow thanks for the screen shots, they make you want it even more lol
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Post by MartinHines »

It will be interesting to demo the Fantom-G in person.

I am wondering if those screens have too much detail, in such small fonts that may be too hard to read.

Those screen images in the links provided are LARGER than the real screen sizes on the keyboard. I measured the diagonal on the first screen image and it was nearly 10", while the real keyboard screen is 8.5" diagonal.

Even with the enlarged images, I have a tough time seeing all of the data. I think Roland will get a fair share of complaints from some people who can't read such small fonts.
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Kontrol49
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Post by Kontrol49 »

Small fonts???No smaller than those of the Triton/M3!

Give me a Fantom G sequencer over the Oasys large screen infact I would say many of the Oasys fonts are small and if not the same size as those G ones,(You can measure them for your own peace of mind :roll: )
Even with a smaller screen that Fantom G sequencer Pisses all over the Oasys's,who gives a hoot about a few fonts not being large as the Oasys's,I've used far less graphic sequencers,and my vision isn't like a Hawk's.the Fantom G is excellent,and well thought out IMO,especially for a small price in comparison to the Oasys Paperweight,and if its a patch on the MV8800 sequencer it will be the best Hardware sequencing device this side of the software environment,I dare say it will change many People's perception on Hardware systems.

If you want a larger display simply utilise a DAW instead,running along side your equipment.

I can think of far more important functions to want in a sequencer that enable me to make music,do you want to make music or just simply sit there all day to look at the screen fonts!

Again its the same theme that runs through a Lot of your Posts,it doesn't display a Korg Logo so lets be pessimistic about it

If your already dissapointed in font size why bother demoing it in person!!

I can only assume its because you know its light years ahead of the Oasys sequencer. :?
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Post by sirCombatWombat »

Martin's post was very matter-of-fact, I can't see why you are taking it personally Kontrol49?
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