Loop a Section on the Fly?

pressrecord@hotmail.com · Mon Jun 11, 2012 5:53 pm

I'm working on using my Kronos for solo performance using Karma & the drum tracks for complete live arrangements.

I would like to be able in the middle of a song to grab my guitar and play a solo, then back to the Kronos. So I am asking for the best way to loop (for want of a better word) say 8 bars of the song I am playing, let that groove play without my hands on the keyboard, then I play the guitar solo, then I get out of the loop and finish up on the Kronos, of course with no timing glitch.

I'd appreciate any ideas on how to pull this off. And the easier, the better.

Thank you- Scott

MarPabl · Post by **MarPabl** » Mon Jun 11, 2012 8:18 pm

RPPR. Search about that on the forum as well as the Korg YouTube channel.

pressrecord@hotmail.com · Wed Jun 13, 2012 3:35 am

Thanks for the tip to check out RPPR. I did a search and dug up some things about that, as well as RonF's comments about using a looping pedal. I wonder how hard it would be in a future OS enhancement to enable the following... you press a button while playing to assign a loop starting point and press again to assign the end loop point and the kronos loops that section forever until you hit a button. This would free us all up for solos when we're doing the one man band thing.

Scott

ksi · Post by **ksi** » Wed Jun 13, 2012 8:47 am

pressrecord@hotmail.com wrote:Thanks for the tip to check out RPPR. I did a search and dug up some things about that, as well as RonF's comments about using a looping pedal. I wonder how hard it would be in a future OS enhancement to enable the following... you press a button while playing to assign a loop starting point and press again to assign the end loop point and the kronos loops that section forever until you hit a button. This would free us all up for solos when we're doing the one man band thing.

Scott

put it on the KRONOS wish list

RonF · Post by **RonF** » Wed Jun 13, 2012 6:39 pm

Yes, I have dreamed of this type of integrated looper for years. But alas, its not been incorporated into any synth that I know of. Your best bet at this time is an external looper. For a while I had worked out a way, on my Fantom G, to use the sampler as a pseudo-looper. And while it worked just fine, it took too many steps to use in real time. You can accomplish it using the Kronos sampler....but its not user practical, especially for live performance.

The best real time interface for looping I have ever used is the Korg KP3. Its simply a one button deal. Preset the number of measures you want to loop. Hit a record button in real time on the top of the first measure. Play your phrase, and the KP3 *automatically* and *seamlessly* loops the phrase upon the reaching the bottom of the last measure. The only issue I have with it is....the amount of record time available in the KP3 is short for many of my own uses. If it has more sample memory...it would be the bomb! Also, some have reported midi sync drift using the KP3. I find that if you use a direct DIN midi connection between the master and the KP3, its tight.

So a secondary device I have discovered is the Elektron Octatrack. Its similar to the KP3 in its implementation, and provides significantly more sample memory. It also has bullet proof midi sync. However....there is more up front set-up on the Octatrack than the KP3, and its a fairly steep learning curve, because the OT is far more than just a simple looper. Then there is also the steep cost of an OT, its not cheap! However....once you have it set up the way you want....saved as a default template...Its as simple as the KP3 to use live. One button to engage record, and it will loop automatically. Of course the KP3 has only 4 loop slots. The OT has 8 which is also cool.

Yes, if only they would incorporate the KP3 looping capability into a Kronos, with extended sample memory. THIS would be a very usable feature in live performance indeed!

blinkofanI · Post by **blinkofanI** » Thu Jun 14, 2012 2:48 am

There's the Hold Delay FX that can be used as a Looper. But the manual says it can record for up to the equivalent of 2 measures at 90 bpm. Might not be enough for what you want to achieve. If you put it in a Total FX slot, it can record all your performance... for a short time.

Blink

MarPabl · Post by **MarPabl** » Thu Jun 14, 2012 4:38 am

For this auto-looping you can try Manual Punch-In where you set starting loop point (for recording) with a foot switch and then press it again to set end loop. This is actually a recording method, but does what you want. Also, there's a Rehearsal function which will prevent unwanted recording.

Look for those methods on the Parameter Guide.

Shakil · Post by **Shakil** » Thu Jun 14, 2012 5:05 am

MarPabl wrote:For this auto-looping you can try Manual Punch-In where you set starting loop point (for recording) with a foot switch and then press it again to set end loop. This is actually a recording method, but does what you want. Also, there's a Rehearsal function which will prevent unwanted recording.

Look for those methods on the Parameter Guide.

Are those (manual punch in and rehearsal) functions possible on with loop recording and does it allow to change tracks after punchout? If they are, I am one more step closer to buying KRONOS. Can someone please. confirm?

Thanks.

MarPabl · Post by **MarPabl** » Thu Jun 14, 2012 6:01 am

Shakil wrote: Are those (manual punch in and rehearsal) functions possible on with loop recording and does it allow to change tracks after punchout? If they are, I am one more step closer to buying KRONOS. Can someone please. confirm?

Thanks.

Those functions are used for loop recording: the basic idea is that you set a recording region and Kronos repeat (loops) that region for you to record it until you get it right. The rehearsal function just prevents the actual recording, but the looping still exists.

Anyway, check the functions by yourself. The Korg M3 also have those functions...

DennyC · Post by **DennyC** » Thu Jun 14, 2012 1:11 pm

Kudos, very insightful points.

RonF · Post by **RonF** » Thu Jun 14, 2012 5:02 pm

Shakil wrote:
Are those (manual punch in and rehearsal) functions possible on with loop recording and does it allow to change tracks after punchout?
Thanks.

As I recall, no it does not allow you to change tracks without stopping playback....which is exactly what prevents it from being a usable multi track looper. It also has no sound on sound recording....each pass will over-write the previous pass. So its not the solution we were talking about above....however, its cool for what it is, if you simply need to loop a single phrase.

PianoManChuck · Post by **PianoManChuck** » Thu Jun 14, 2012 7:12 pm

pressrecord@hotmail.com wrote:Thanks for the tip to check out RPPR. I did a search and dug up some things about that, as well as RonF's comments about using a looping pedal. I wonder how hard it would be in a future OS enhancement to enable the following... you press a button while playing to assign a loop starting point and press again to assign the end loop point and the kronos loops that section forever until you hit a button. This would free us all up for solos when we're doing the one man band thing.

Scott

Use an external looping pedal. They're easy to use, and because you operate it with your foot, you won't be interrupting your playing performance while looking for a switch to flick with your hand... and there's more options (depending on the loop pedal being used) for controlling it with your foot so that you can keep on playing with your hands! The very scenario you described: press a button (but with your foot) to start the loop recording, and then again to end the loop recording and repeat what you just recorded forever until you press (or step on) "stop".

For your purposes, the Roland BOSS RC-3 should do the trick, and its a stereo looping pedal (keep that in mind because a lot of the cheaper looping pedals are mono). Three hours of looping time is allowed on this pedal (even though you'll probably be looping less than a minute worth of playing in your case).

Next up would be the BOSS RC-30 which is a dual looper (also 3 hours worth of time) but with more I/O possibilities. From what you described, the RC-3 should suit your purposes just fine... however, once you start using this, you'll start realizing many more uses for it and it'll change (add to) your musical ideas... in which case you may have wished you'd gone with a pedal with even more capabilities.

If you really want to get carried away, go with the BOSS RC-300... an absolutely amazing looping pedal! It has 3 separate stereo loop tracks (call it 3 looping pedals in one)... you can route your Kronos thru one of the stereo loop pedal inputs, someone else's instrument (guitar?) into a 2nd loop track, and a mic on a 3rd track... you can loop or stop off any of those 3 at any time, independently of the other 2, which opens up a whole world of possibilities! All tracks can be set to be automatically sync'd which is also a great feature!

I use the RC-30 for live performances, and the RC-300 in the studio. They're both absolutely amazing!

Hope this helps you out a bit.

pressrecord@hotmail.com · Fri Jun 15, 2012 6:32 pm

Some really good ideas to enhance the Kronos itself and to use it with other gear to get sections to loop without stopping your live performance are presented and I thank you all. I will check out the Roland loopers. Also RonF mentioned in an earlier thread on looping that Pigtronix is coming out with a midi synchable looper. For some reason that product has been delayed for months. If anyone else has any good ideas, feel free to jump in. But it would be awesome indeed if the Kronos itself could simply do it one day without the need for outboard gear.

PianoManChuck · Post by **PianoManChuck** » Fri Jun 15, 2012 7:30 pm

pressrecord@hotmail.com wrote:Some really good ideas to enhance the Kronos itself and to use it with other gear to get sections to loop without stopping your live performance are presented and I thank you all. I will check out the Roland loopers. Also RonF mentioned in an earlier thread on looping that Pigtronix is coming out with a midi synchable looper. For some reason that product has been delayed for months. If anyone else has any good ideas, feel free to jump in. But it would be awesome indeed if the Kronos itself could simply do it one day without the need for outboard gear.

The RC-300 is MIDI-syncable.
... and yes, I'd love to be able to do it all within the Kronos without any external gear, but having the external gear also has its advantages... it can be used with anything, anywhere.
Best of luck to you with whatever you decide to go with!

RonF · Post by **RonF** » Fri Jun 15, 2012 8:13 pm

PianoManChuck wrote: The RC-300 is MIDI-syncable.

Hey PMC...how does it do as a midi slave?

I have recently upgraded my Ocatrack to the newest OS which includes a dedicated looper. Still fleshing it out, but so far its amazing! 8 Tracks of bullet proof midi sync with tons of record time. But lets face it....this is an expensive solution for many.

I sure do wish the Pigtronix Infinity would get released already!