PA500 live (mayor drawback, very low output sound, )

superpowter77 · Post by **superpowter77** » Wed Apr 01, 2009 12:48 pm

I'm highly disappointing about my new PA500, I tried adjusting everything, general volume, equalizer, global settings, individual voices, performances, etc with no success. I cracked it up almost all volume levels on my PA500, KC-550, and onyx 1640. It simply can't be, I may be doing something wrong, maybe, let's give it the benefit of doubt, or just got a bad unit for second time, who knows?. In constrast, my other keyboards psr-s900, psr-s700, rd-300sx, gw-8 are doing just fine with half(or less) of the sound levels I'm using currently for the PA500, It reminded me when I have to play 3 years ago with my old DGX-505 (light enough and good keys) and couldn't get enough output levels, never, and had to use a preamp (ART DPS I) to get decent output sound.
This is(PA500), and this is just my 2 cents, a home keyboard, intended for the home market, maybe this is the reason why I've being against arrangers(w/ speakers) for the last 6 years, just moved to the arranger arena 1 year ago. Ultimately, you get what you pay for.... no matter how great and versatile it's , I will seriously consider to return it, this is a mayor drawback for anyone who goes live, and will try get a better suited one for live sessions, as the M3 or fantom X6 or G6.

Rob Sherratt · Post by **Rob Sherratt** » Wed Apr 01, 2009 1:31 pm

superpowter77 · Post by **superpowter77** » Wed Apr 01, 2009 1:52 pm

To complete my post just want to add, I'm using balance TRS cabling(stereo) and Radial Pro D2 Stereo Passive Direct Boxes with all my setups and still don't get an acceptable output for the PA500. Looks like if I decide to keep my PA500 will have to feed it up with a quality preamp... ...more extra gear, more extra work for me...totally inconceivable for today's standards..come on Korg!, we should get better equipment for $1500

dimitris · Post by **dimitris** » Wed Apr 01, 2009 2:12 pm

Sorry but, PA500 does not have balanced outputs!!

Regards,
Dimitris

wirakb · Post by **wirakb** » Wed Apr 01, 2009 2:52 pm

i think that is because the capacity on the pa50 is just 15 watts. and that is not enought power to have more db.

regards...

Rob Sherratt · Post by **Rob Sherratt** » Wed Apr 01, 2009 10:06 pm

dimitris wrote:Sorry but, PA500 does not have balanced outputs!!

Regards,
Dimitris

It's easy to go balanced for long cable runs - you use a short 6 inch mono lead connected to a DI box, then use TRS or XLS connectors and cables from the DI box to your amp or mixer.

Best regards,
Rob

macboy · Post by **macboy** » Thu Apr 02, 2009 12:40 pm

It was easier if all of you posted here

http://www.korgforums.com/forum/phpBB2/ ... hp?t=42296

It is not good to have 2 threads in 2 days about the same problem.

superpowter77 · Post by **superpowter77** » Fri Apr 03, 2009 5:42 pm

Now I have a new useless keyboard for practice at home, will be very careful next time and will definitely annoy the salesman testing everything that is critical and crucial for my current live "needs".

Rob Sherratt · Post by **Rob Sherratt** » Sat Apr 04, 2009 12:07 am

superpowter77 wrote:Now I have a new useless keyboard for practice at home, will be very careful next time and will definitely annoy the salesman testing everything that is critical and crucial for my current live "needs".

Note that the Pa500 outputs are not balanced, so you must use mono jack leads of about 6 inch length betweeen the Pa500 and the DI box unbalanced input, then TRS or XLR leads to your mixer desk. When I had a Pa1x, I used a Behringer DI-100 dual DI box to convert the Pa1x outputs from unbalanced to balanced, and then I used a pair of long XLR leads straight to my powered monitor speakers.

If anyone used TRS/stereo jack leads from the Pa500, and plugged the other end into balanced inputs eg on a mixer desk or powered monitors elsewhere, there would be an impedance mismatch and distorted sound and severe loss of gain.

Any mixer desk or mixer amplifier will cope fine with the output from the Pa500. Everyone playing live uses some form of mixer desk or mixer/amp so I don't think you can say the Pa500 is useless for live use.

Best regards,
Rob

superpowter77 · Post by **superpowter77** » Tue Apr 07, 2009 1:40 pm

I'm ordering right now 2x BBE DI-100X Active Direct Box and 2x behringer DI100, will give a last try to this home keyboard, only expecting will improve my output volume levels, my current and expensive radial passive direct boxes weren't good enough for the PA500.

superpowter77 · Post by **superpowter77** » Sat Apr 11, 2009 1:26 am

those active boxes I just ordered didn't arrive on time, I went to my local store and get 2x radial active boxes, 400 total plus tax, expensive stuff and finally got the results I was expecting when purchased pa500, today we were using a monster setup , 12 mackie srm450(8 for main and 4 for monitors) plus dedicated amps for each instrument(guitars, keyboard,etc), and people was amazed how incredible the sounds coming from my pa500, to be fair I had to use mono output for my psr-s900 and a cheap passive box for it, the keyboard amp they gave me only had 3 inputs.
to be honest sounds coming from my psr-s900 sounded just ok, however they were also flat and inexpressive, In the other side I couldn't believe how great and vivid were those layered sounds(custom performances) coming from my PA500. I'm guessing has to be with MFX's found on the PA500.
Will try to get a PA800 in the next 4 months carefully , avoiding my wife knowing about it .

Rob Sherratt · Post by **Rob Sherratt** » Sat Apr 11, 2009 5:58 am

I'm very pleased you are now getting good sounds from your Pa500.

I just wanted to add a note here for any other Pa500 owners, that because the Pa500 does not use balanced outputs, it is very important to use a MONO jack lead if you are connecting it to anything like powered speakers or a mixer whose inputs can accept balanced or unbalanced. If you plug a STEREO/TRS plug in, then the input circuit is switched from unbalanced to balanced mode.

If you connect using a STEREO/TRS jack lead, then the input at the powered speakers or mixer desk will be expecting to see a balanced signal. When it sees only the unbalanced signal from the Pa500, then you loose more than 50% of the signal and there is an impedance mismatch that causes distortion and unwanted resonance to the sound.

With unbalanced cables you should keep the lead length to less than 3 meters, and the leads must be kept far away from any mains cables or power supplies, otherwise you will get hum pickup.

Best regards,
Rob

saldevita · Post by **saldevita** » Sun Apr 12, 2009 9:02 pm

Wow! Rob,

I'm lost with your deployment of technicisms!

, jajaja.

I'm looking for an advice with my PA500: I'm seriously considering to buy a couple of active monitors (Yamaha HS50M or HS80M), to enjoy playing with friends. However, now considering the apparently low level in the line out, I'm not sure it will be enough without a preamp.

Will these boxes work at 100% with my PA500?

Thanks!

Rob Sherratt · Post by **Rob Sherratt** » Sun Apr 12, 2009 10:40 pm

saldevita wrote:Wow! Rob,

I'm lost with your deployment of technicisms! , jajaja.

I'm looking for an advice with my PA500: I'm seriously considering to buy a couple of active monitors (Yamaha HS50M or HS80M), to enjoy playing with friends. However, now considering the apparently low level in the line out, I'm not sure it will be enough without a preamp.

Will these boxes work at 100% with my PA500?

Thanks!

Hi saldevita,

Sorry if my posts are too technical, but unless you understand about the issue of balanced and unbalanced connections, you will waste a lot of money and things will not work properly.

The HS50M and the HS80M require balanced inputs.

The Pa500 provides unbalanced outputs.

You cannot connect the Pa500 outputs directly to the HS50M or HS80M monitors. They are not compatible.

You will not require a preamp, but you will need something like a Behringer Ultra-DI D120 box to convert the unbalanced outputs from the Pa500 to balanced. You should use a pair of short mono jack leads (guitar cables) to connect from the Pa500 to the DI D120 box, and then use a pair of XLR leads to connect the balanced outputs from the DI D120 box to the HS50M or HS80M monitors. Then everything will work as designed.

There is no such thing as low outputs on the Pa500, only people connecting by mistake unbalanced outputs to balanced inputs causing an impedance mismatch (which leads to distortion) and less than 50% power.

http://www.behringer.com/EN/Products/DI20.aspx

You do need to understand the difference between unbalanced and balanced connections before you proceed. I suggest read this article, then if you have any more questions I'll try to help further.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balanced_audio_connector

Best regards,
Rob

superpowter77 · Post by **superpowter77** » Tue Apr 14, 2009 11:59 am

I also purchase 2 of these units(behringer dI 100 active direct boxes $80 total, a true bargain), tested last night got amazing results, it's really a pain to install the 9V battery on this unit. I'm only using 25% of the general volume on my PA500, comparing with a 100% use with expensive passive boxes and not even getting same output quality, sound coming from this behringer units are simply great, no perceptible hums and sound is crisp and highly expressive. I don't know how reliable those behringer units are, but for the price you cannot go wrong.