RH3 or "synth action"

Megakazbek · Post by **Megakazbek** » Fri Feb 18, 2011 4:50 pm

EnjoyRC wrote:They build motorcycles... they know a thing or two about building keybeds.

Actually, it's kinda the other way round: they started to build motorcycles because they knew a thing or two about building pianos, and materials they developed for their acoustic pianos turned out to be very suitable also for motorcycle parts.

alantunucci · Post by **alantunucci** » Fri Feb 18, 2011 6:10 pm

StephenKay wrote: Well, I was classically trained, I have a Yamaha C7 grand, I've played real piano all my life since the age of 7, and I prefer synth action on my synths.

That's a big surprise for me, I would bet that you love hammer-action keys, specially when there's a C7 in you studio and you play very well.

But I was kidding a little, of course it is not always lack of training. It may be just that the guy prefer synth keys, like you.

but, Stephen, do you practice with synth keys? I bet you practice using your C7

McHale · Post by **McHale** » Fri Feb 18, 2011 7:17 pm

drama1 wrote:Yup, I came this close (-) to ordering an 88, but am glad I didn't. I will certainly check out the Kronos when released, but my M3-73 fully loaded seems for me anyway, the perfect board because of weight, size and sound. I use the Karma for smooth program/combi changes, going to be ordering the K-Sounds Yamaha C7 sample set and B3 Organimation. For me the Radias exp produces more than enough analog sounds. The more I read about the Kronos, I'm not sure I need three different analog exi's, not really crazy about the CX3 so far and because there's no real weight difference between the 73 and 88, it's not going to be easy lugging up and down stairs. Unless there's a HUGE difference on quality of sound, I'll probably stick with the M3 for now.

I've played the M3-88 a few times since ordering the Kronos and I may cancel my Kronos order. I can NOT do what I need to on the RH-3 keybed. I thought it was just me being thick or lazy or... but it's not. I have a real piano in the house and I can play that for hours. I'm not trying to play organ or synth solos on it.

I am looking forward to the additional Kronos features but if I can't use the keybed, it's all a moot point anyway.

StephenKay · Post by **StephenKay** » Fri Feb 18, 2011 9:33 pm

alantunucci wrote:
StephenKay wrote: Well, I was classically trained, I have a Yamaha C7 grand, I've played real piano all my life since the age of 7, and I prefer synth action on my synths.
That's a big surprise for me, I would bet that you love hammer-action keys, specially when there's a C7 in you studio and you play very well.

But I was kidding a little, of course it is not always lack of training. It may be just that the guy prefer synth keys, like you.

but, Stephen, do you practice with synth keys? I bet you practice using your C7

I don't practice. I'm a software designer now.

One reason I like synth actions is I prefer playing many types of sounds with them, such as drum programming, synth leads (I can play faster on a synth action) and especially organs. Playing organs with a weighted keyboard is just as bad (if not worse) feeling to me than playing a piano with a synth action keyboard (I once had a real Hammond as well). It just feels "wrong". If I was mainly going to play piano, then I would go with a weighted. But for general use, I'd rather suffer with synth action the few times I use the piano, and have the synth action for everything else. But that's just me.

What would be ideal would be a dual manual 88 key controller, with a weighted action on the bottom manual and a synth action on the top manual.

realtrance · Post by **realtrance** » Fri Feb 18, 2011 10:49 pm

Stephen, not surprisingly, nails it. And I'll say this as someone classically trained, who had time at the Philadelphia Academy of Music (ok so it wasn't Julliard, but was good enough for me!) during his college years.

I remember when I first came upon synths, after being a pianist for so many years, and thinking, universally, "what a cheap, plastic keyboard! It's like a toy! How can anyone stand this?!"

Now, many years later, bereft, unfortunately, of access to pianos for a very long time but thoroughly engaged with synths.... I have to say that a synth action is going to be, in my opinion, the far more flexible one. For organs, clavinet, harpsichord, guitar strums, electronic music sweeps.... the fact that you don't have to develop and sustain the muscle strength to control a heavy piano keyboard means you can develop a more sensitive variety of technique, that is probably in general better for your health and less likely to risk carpal tunnel or repetitive stress disorders.

I know, I know, anyone who loves pianos, as I did or still do, really, might find this anathema; but there's just a range of things you can do with a synth action that go beyond what's possible with piano action. You liberate yourself from more than just convention if you give up the assumptions you might have built up with sustained piano training.

And btw, give it up on sassing Jordan; he's brilliant, wonderfully trained, a fully sympathetic musician with a great ear and incredible technical skill as well. Just admit your envy. It requires a combination of talent and extremely hard and dedicated effort to make it into Julliard, it's not just "elitism," it's genius, talent and most of all, committment and perspiration. You should be so good.

Akos Janca · Post by **Akos Janca** » Fri Feb 18, 2011 10:53 pm

StephenKay wrote:What would be ideal would be a dual manual 88 key controller, with a weighted action on the bottom manual and a synth action on the top manual.

+1

Why Korg don't make it? The OASYS/Kronos concept would really deserve it. (Yes, I know the answer - higher price, worse portability etc.)

And finally somebody will invent the switchable keybed mechanism (with a kind of latch maybe). The best if the lower and upper half of the keyboard could also be set independently from each other. Would it be strange to play "B3" with the left hand and "Rhodes" with the right one - with the right feel, at the same time splitted on the same keyboard?

jimknopf · Post by **jimknopf** » Fri Feb 18, 2011 11:08 pm

The idea is a principal option, but I for one wouldn't want such a tank at all (weight, size). And I doubt many would buy it.

A well done half-weighted keybed would be a better compromise for me. But since 61 keys is not what I want on my basic keyboard, I don't have any choice at all anyway, and discussion is futile.

Jon Lord · Post by **Jon Lord** » Fri Feb 18, 2011 11:36 pm

Is it just me but im missing a RH3 midi keyboard controller from korg. a simple and straightforward product with pitchweel/stick, ability to change midi channel and velocity curve and nothing else... i mean nothing. This combined with a kronos 61 sitting on top of it and we have a winner

Citizen Klaus · Post by **Citizen Klaus** » Sat Feb 19, 2011 12:12 am

realtrance wrote:And btw, give it up on sassing Jordan; he's brilliant, wonderfully trained, a fully sympathetic musician with a great ear and incredible technical skill as well. Just admit your envy. It requires a combination of talent and extremely hard and dedicated effort to make it into Julliard, it's not just "elitism," it's genius, talent and most of all, committment and perspiration. You should be so good.

Who's "sassing" JR? I said that he had elite training (as in, training to a standard beyond that of many other musicians), which, may I add, is not the same thing as accusing him of elitism.

For what it's worth, he's one of my favorite artists.

fatih89 · Post by **fatih89** » Sat Feb 19, 2011 1:03 am

Stupid question: Isn't it possible to use a MIDI-Keyboard with synth-action on Kronos?
So you can use RH3 and synth-action keys.

I really don't understand your problem. In my opinion RH3 is a very good keybed, but it's also hard to play organs or synths with it. So I would buy the Kronos88 and plug in a MIDI-keyboard with synth-action so I can switch between two keybeds. ???

T7 · Post by T7 » Sat Feb 19, 2011 2:35 am

McHale wrote:
I've played the M3-88 a few times since ordering the Kronos and I may cancel my Kronos order. I can NOT do what I need to on the RH-3 keybed. I thought it was just me being thick or lazy or... but it's not. I have a real piano in the house and I can play that for hours. I'm not trying to play organ or synth solos on it.

I am looking forward to the additional Kronos features but if I can't use the keybed, it's all a moot point anyway.

Srsly? I hope you mean you're gonna change your order to a Kronos 61 when you say you may cancel your order.

McHale · Post by **McHale** » Sat Feb 19, 2011 3:41 am

T7 wrote:Srsly? I hope you mean you're gonna change your order to a Kronos 61 when you say you may cancel your order.

No. It'd be a full cancel in hopes that they come to their senses with a 73 (or help me God, a 76) key semi-weighted. 61 is NOT enough for me to use it live. It's just not. I don't use my M3 live because 73 C to C doesn't work for me.

There'll be another iteration of it someday - rack, 73 semi, whatever.

As awesome as it is, 61 isn't enough and RH3 is killing me. I'm going to give the M3-88 one more session of going through our set and if it doesn't work for me, I'll cancel. I play 2 songs that are piano, I play 15 that are organ. All the rest is synth.

robinkle · Post by **robinkle** » Sat Feb 19, 2011 9:43 am

The opinions here are very spread out.
For me, I don't think playing Weighted keys are too heavy for organ sounds.
Weighted keys are not THAT heavy! What can be heavy is the velocity sensitivity. On the presentation I don't see them banging the keyboard to do expressive piano play. It looks to me it's very sensitive and expressive.

If weighted is too heavy, you can try one of these.

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ozy · Post by **ozy** » Sat Feb 19, 2011 10:02 am

robinkle wrote:If weighted is too heavy, you can try one of these.

or try this:

robinkle · Post by **robinkle** » Sat Feb 19, 2011 10:22 am

ozy wrote:
robinkle wrote:If weighted is too heavy, you can try one of these.
or try this:

You can stick to that.