Kronos add ons (Expansions)

[ozy]

Why don't you read both the Kronos Operation and Parameter Guides, cover to cover, find any errors, and submit the list to Dan? I am sure he would appreciate it (instead of your current whining).

because I'm not an employee paid for guaranteeing Korg products' quality.

I am busy making MY job perfect, thanks. Rehearsing and writing and testing and being judged for MY mistakes.

Then they pay me for doing a good job,

then I go and spend my money on Korg products,

and KORG takes care of its quality.

That's how the world works: producers, not customers, are liable for a product's quality.

Just wanted to cross some "I"s and dot some "T"s.

This is the point where usually SteveK or some other corporate apologist steps in and patronizes everybody explaining that it's perfectly rational, and that we just don't get the point.

Sad.

Quod Erat Demonstrandum

[NuSkoolTone]

Why don't you read both the Kronos Operation and Parameter Guides, cover to cover, find any errors, and submit the list to Dan? I am sure he would appreciate it (instead of your current whining).

because I'm not an employee paid for guaranteeing Korg products' quality.

I am busy making MY job perfect, thanks. Rehearsing and writing and testing and being judged for MY mistakes.

Then they pay me for doing a good job,

then I go and spend my money on Korg products,

and KORG takes care of its quality.

That's how the world works: producers, not customers, are liable for a product's quality.

Just wanted to cross some "I"s and dot some "T"s.

AMEN! Unfortunately this seems the way of the world and not just any particular company. Aggressive deadlines and production schedules change the motto from "It's Perfect! Ship it." To "Well, it's not broken and pretty much works. Ship it, and we'll roll out updates" Hence making the customers Beta Testers. I've had it happen to me with keyboards I've owned and is why I no longer pre-order ANYTHING.

That said, I'm not worried about Kronos. I'm sure everything at the OASYS level has been worked out by now (I mean how could it NOT be right?) so for this instance I think the product will be solid.

[ozy]

Hence making the customers Beta Testers.

which is something different.

I am in kurzweil's beta list, and it's something different from being a Paying Lab Mouse.

Getting pre-releases of software updates, treats, the occasional patch created by the staff (and contributing some), having your say in future features, seeing your recommendations implemented...

... that's "beta".

Spending two years trying to get the m3 right, getting a sounding nothing in exchange,

and being scolded by people who are paid for making it work...

... that's not "beta", that's Microsoft.

The difference between Korg and Microsoft is...

... Microsoft has no militant fanboys.

[jahrome]

The difference between Korg and Microsoft is...

... Microsoft has no militant fanboys.

Welll...across all these forums, there are plenty of militant fanboys of Korg, Roland, Yamaha, etc

[ozy]

across all these forums, there are plenty of militant fanboys of Korg, Roland, Yamaha, etc

Indeed. I was not singling out Korg. Yamaha's and Roland fanboys are famous. Yamaha's fan forum is one of the most unruly, overexcited and un-technical places.

But for a Korg employee, parading yourself on the web when things are fine (new product which "changes the game")

and becoming resentful when customers spot a flaw,

is not a professional behaviour.

If I dared to publicly scold fans who criticize me when I lose a game, I'd be fired in 5 minutes.

You shut up, take note, correct, come back with a solution, and don't expect thanks. You just expect your salary to be paid on time, that's all.

But of course we are dealing with "artists", not just with technicians or professionals.

They want salary AND popularity. And f*ck the client.

[NuSkoolTone]

Spending two years trying to get the m3 right, getting a sounding nothing in exchange,

and being scolded by people who are paid for making it work...

Ahh, another reason why I no longer pre-order. NEVER.....EVER buy a keyboard or product based on "Future Updates". ALWAYS purchase based on what is actually SHIPPING! There are countless examples of "Promised" features, updates, and fixes that NEVER happened. I've been there once. Never again!

Actually, Physically TEST every feature you care about before buying. Just because it says it does it on the spec sheet doesn't mean it does it the way you expect or want. YOU have to decide if the implementation is good enough AS IS. Hoping what you bought will be updated into something else is the road to broken dreams! Do you know how many times I've tried out a keyboard that said "Akai Compatible" only to find out the implementation was some kind of worthless, cruel joke? LOTS!
Everytime a new keyboard comes out everyone gets excited, but it's the "Gotchas" and the REALITY of how the keyboard works past the marketing that can really tarnish that new keyboard smell.

Korg has had a lot of time to get Kronos right, and if I were to bet I'd say they did. Will it be perfect? Hell no. Impossible! Overall you have to take it's strengths and weaknesses and weigh it out, just like everything else.

[Akos Janca]

Aggressive deadlines and production schedules change the motto from "It's Perfect! Ship it." To "Well, it's not broken and pretty much works. Ship it, and we'll roll out updates"...

Very well said, unfortunately.

Also practically it's not possible to fully test the product sometimes because it's too complex. Testing is inefficient = the bugs turn out only at the customer.

[StephenKay]

This is the point where usually SteveK or some other corporate apologist steps in and patronizes everybody explaining that it's perfectly rational, and that we just don't get the point.

Sad.

Quod Erat Demonstrandum

I don't see how labeling you as "sad" (as in pathetic) demonstrates your point. I didn't comment on this particular issue. Your attacks on people who actually "know inside stuff", actually have real units, and have actually worked on the development of the product (and I'm not talking about just myself here) and are willing to come to here and share information, even if it's just their own opinions, doesn't serve this forum well.

[KapnKrunch]

Sad.

Quod Erat Demonstrandum

I don't see how labeling you as "sad" (as in pathetic) demonstrates your point. I didn't comment on this particular issue. Your attacks on people who actually "know inside stuff", actually have real units, and have actually worked on the development of the product (and I'm not talking about just myself here) and are willing to come to here and share information, even if it's just their own opinions, doesn't serve this forum well.

Amen Stephen.

Personal attacks serve no useful purpose, either in life or on this forum.

I believe "Karma" (pun intended) will prevail.

[jimknopf]

I regard all this completely out of proportion talk about "a ring of LEDs around each knob" as utterly ridiculous and pathetic. I would only understand such criticism, if anybody were reluctant to correct some little typos or oversights.
But that's not the case.

And every time I hear people talk about "making their perfect job while expecting the same from others" I hear a new FAT stone crashing into someone's personal glass house.

[ozy]

labeling you as "sad"

cretin

[StephenKay]

labeling you as "sad"

cretin

Quod Erat Demonstrandum

(brutum fulmen - dare pondus idonea fumo.)

[zahush76]

Do you know how many times I've tried out a keyboard that said "Akai Compatible" only to find out the implementation was some kind of worthless, cruel joke? LOTS!
Everytime a new keyboard comes out everyone gets excited, but it's the "Gotchas" and the REALITY of how the keyboard works past the marketing that can really tarnish that new keyboard smell.

Speak of the devil...
Here's what Jahrome wrote on the soundfont thread:

Today, I purchased some Sound Font files for the Kronos from: http://www.digitalsoundfactory.com/

I bought the Emu Mo Phatt library. I use to own that module over 7 years ago. So I was excited about seeing how these sounds would translate to Kronos. To my disappointment, the library quickly eat up Kronos' maximum allowable Ram MS indexes before half of the 85 MB library was loaded. I still have almost 1 GB of sample memory available.

[Thoraldus]

across all these forums, there are plenty of militant fanboys of Korg, Roland, Yamaha, etc

Indeed. I was not singling out Korg. Yamaha's and Roland fanboys are famous. Yamaha's fan forum is one of the most unruly, overexcited and un-technical places.

But for a Korg employee, parading yourself on the web when things are fine (new product which "changes the game")

and becoming resentful when customers spot a flaw,

is not a professional behaviour.

If I dared to publicly scold fans who criticize me when I lose a game, I'd be fired in 5 minutes.

You shut up, take note, correct, come back with a solution, and don't expect thanks. You just expect your salary to be paid on time, that's all.

But of course we are dealing with "artists", not just with technicians or professionals.

They want salary AND popularity. And f*ck the client.

dolium volvitur

[Kevin Nolan]

Ozy -

You really are unfair in your comments. Korg are among the very best companies at delivering complete and robust products. I know you can list issues here and there (as for all companies), but the underlying tone of your posts if unfair and inaccurate and needs to be corrected.

I was a beta tester for OASYS for over a year and I can tell you that their procedures are impeccable. I can speak from hard experience - I was a test lead engineer for Sun Microsystems for two years in the late nineties and Korg are every bit as impeccable as Sun (who made their reputation on stunning quality in UNIX workstations).

And as has been flagged, the quality of the documentation provided for such a small user base is second to none. Forget OASYS hangovers - THE vital issue is that every last important issue in these gargantuan instruments has been explained in exquisite details. They are utterly comprehensive, utterly professional and masterful.

Furthermore, during the testing of MOD-7 a few of us beta testers recommended to Dan vwery late in the produc cycle that some extra explanation on MOD-7 would be desirable - and at that very late stage Dan wrote, single handedly, the fabulous MOD-7 tutorial you now find in both the OASYS and Kronos Parameter guides. Dan developed THE perfect step by step guide, with THE optimum examples and drafted it virtually typo free in such a short time - he went far and beyond the extra mile to squeeze every last drop of resource into the MOD-7 manual.

And in general, I have to say, from the rapid development of a diverse range of awesome technologies for such a relatively small company, they are deserving of the very highest accolades of innovation, design and implementation. Nothing could be further from the perspective you are propagating here. I mean, almost as an 'aside', they release iMS20, monotribe and wavedrum mini, without batting an eyelid, and all of exceptional qualtiy and innovation.

I could go on about Stephen Kay even more. All I'll say is - from what I believe he single handedly conceived, designed and developed all the code for Karma for all current synths, has written countless thousands of pages of documents and also had the ability to manage the amazing karma-lab site with its forums, wiki, tutorials and so on. When you consider what a precarious protocol MIDI can be, given the fact that KARMA manages hundreds of MIDI paramters - in real time and bug free - you just begin to get a sense of the underlying quality of Karma as implemented by Kamra-Lab. It is totally taken for granted, IMO.

So Korg / Kama are among THE most innovative and extensive music technology environments you can avail of today, at the very highest echelons of quality. I know I'm laying it on 'thick' here - but I'm no fanboy - this is an exquisite company and it is grossly unfair to suggest otherwise.

And with the greatest of respect - Kurzweil have been peddling the same VAST OS for twenty years, with arguably a few percent of the innovation of Korg in the same time - and - their K2500 manuals are a disgrace - they are impenetrable IMO. I find Kurzweil documentation (and their OS) among the most user unfriendly systems to engage. So I think you should pull back on this comparison.

I'm saying all of this because Ozy, while you come across as a very smart guy and a very engaging and talented person whom I have a lot of time for on this forum, you are simply dead wrong to cast Korg in this light; and the record needs to be set straight for new and unsuspecting readers to your posts on this thread.

Kevin.