Korg's European delivery misery: status update

EXer · Post by **EXer** » Wed Jul 06, 2011 8:55 pm

Now that I know I'll have to wait longer than expected, I have learnt to live with it. After all I'm patient and I own a few synths I can make good music with.

I'm even ready to wait a little longer. I mean until Korg release a Kronos with 2 Gb more RAM and an OS version that provides bigger fonts and bigger virtual buttons on the touch screen and an updated M3 like sequencer.

Or until Yamaha release a competitor to the Kronos if Korg don't want to provide these updates.

jimknopf · Post by **jimknopf** » Wed Jul 06, 2011 9:02 pm

I can't name exact numbers, but it still looks to me as if the delivery level in Europe is extremely low, even compared to limited US delivery.

It looks like a miracle to me to get one so soon surprisingly, and phone calls before to resellers always made me feel like someone asking for rare dope than someone trying to order a musical instrument.

@EXer
I felt the same on the day with the "October news", before the delivery surprise: just returning to making music with what I have (which is more than enough). And somehow, even with the pleasant surprise, I will rather not change that attitude again.

michelkeijzers · Post by **michelkeijzers** » Thu Jul 07, 2011 1:18 am

Most dutch music stores show availability 'soon' or '4 weeks' ... 4 weeks would still not bad as october as mentioned before, but most shops had written 8 weeks in May so the 4 weeks can be longer.

Harry_G · Post by **Harry_G** » Thu Jul 07, 2011 10:04 am

I asked Thomann when the Kronos will be available and this is their answer.

We decided to keep the Kronos off the page until bigger quantities are available - if you place an order now you would have to wait until November to get an instrument. If Korg can give information about the delivery date for bigger quantities (at the moment we will recieve only single instruments until November and beyond this date we have no information) we will put Kronos on the homepage. Of course you have the possibility to do a reservation on the product. The price has been set by Korg for the whole European market to 2999,- € for the 61-key version, there is no further discount possible.

sparkie · Post by **sparkie** » Thu Jul 07, 2011 1:32 pm

Amazing... their is a new unsold K 88 on Ebay US now for $3799. ?? Item number 250846543787.

panrixx · Post by **panrixx** » Thu Jul 07, 2011 1:50 pm

sparkie wrote:Amazing... their is a new unsold K 88 on Ebay US now for $3799. ?? Item number 250846543787.

Sounds fishy to me. Has sold a total of 4 items on eBay since April 2009. What is strange is that if you select 'items for sale', under this member, nothing shows up!

michelkeijzers · Post by **michelkeijzers** » Thu Jul 07, 2011 2:08 pm

panrixx wrote:
sparkie wrote:Amazing... their is a new unsold K 88 on Ebay US now for $3799. ?? Item number 250846543787.
Sounds fishy to me. Has sold a total of 4 items on eBay since April 2009. What is strange is that if you select 'items for sale', under this member, nothing shows up!

A few months ago I save someone from the UK selling 66, 73 and 88 for very low prices (even the 88 was cheaper than the 61). Only shipping possible and pay before being shipped (of course).

sparkie · Post by **sparkie** » Thu Jul 07, 2011 2:11 pm

panrixx wrote:
sparkie wrote:Amazing... their is a new unsold K 88 on Ebay US now for $3799. ?? Item number 250846543787.
Sounds fishy to me. Has sold a total of 4 items on eBay since April 2009. What is strange is that if you select 'items for sale', under this member, nothing shows up!

I doubt it.. what you could do is buy it, and before paying... call him and ask him where he bought it from...or music dealer references in the area and call them. Then if you doubt it, just dont pay and report it. If its a scam Paypal will refund you...

panrixx · Post by **panrixx** » Thu Jul 07, 2011 2:58 pm

Seller says "I will allow local pick up. You must pay through Paypal first to pick it up".

Why is seller prepared to pay PayPal fees if you are going to collect? Why not cash on delivery? Also, I don't think PayPal will cough up that sort of money easily.

dangerousdave · Post by **dangerousdave** » Thu Jul 07, 2011 3:01 pm

panrixx wrote:Seller says "I will allow local pick up. You must pay through Paypal first to pick it up".

Why is seller prepared to pay PayPal fees if you are going to collect? Why not cash on delivery? Also, I don't think PayPal will cough up that sort of money easily.

Collection + Paypal only = scam

cello · Post by **cello** » Thu Jul 07, 2011 3:35 pm

dangerousdave wrote:
panrixx wrote:Seller says "I will allow local pick up. You must pay through Paypal first to pick it up".

Why is seller prepared to pay PayPal fees if you are going to collect? Why not cash on delivery? Also, I don't think PayPal will cough up that sort of money easily.
Collection + Paypal only = scam

Seems that way to me too...

Could be fun though to ask the seller some questions making it look like you're really keen... like -

"Hi - thanks so much for listing this keyboard! I have dreamed of having this but can't afford full price so am very interested!

Just to make sure you're selling the model I want, can you tell me is it the 4Gb version you have?

Look forward to hearing from you about this!"

RKfan · Post by **RKfan** » Thu Jul 07, 2011 5:13 pm

danatkorg wrote:
RKfan wrote:HUH??

$3,000 is £1,850 - if you add 20% on this for local taxes (not counting shipping or import duty since this is something Korg will have to pay where ever they import to) this becomes £2220 - we are asked to pay £2,599 - what is the extra £380 for (certainly not taxes these have already been included)?

All I am saying is that the current Kronos price in Europe is 15-18% more than it should be (the sums don't add up even if you add local taxes). My point is wouldn't it be reasonable to ask your local supplier for that sort of discount in order to get your business, after all there are lots of places you could buy from (obviously not Thomann) - although maybe not yet but it might pay to shop around. Of course if you are desperate to pay over the odds - that is your choice.
I've just compared the prices of the Fantom G8, Motif XF8, and KRONOS 88 at two major retailers: Musician's Friend in the USA, and Digital Village in the UK. All three are more expensive in the UK, based on current exchange rates.

Fantom G8: 33% higher
Motif XF8: 40% higher
KRONOS 88: 35% higher

I don't know all of the factors which cause these differences, but it seems like the increase is relatively uniform, with the KRONOS in the middle of the pack.

In re there only being a few available: this is the case in the USA as well. Supply is constrained. Customers have only been able to buy 61s for a few weeks, and the very first customers are starting to get weighted-key models now.

Here is some more data comparing Sweetwater and DV247 (exchange rate £1 = $1.61)

Roland G8 $3799, £2909 - 18% more
Roland Jupiter 80 $3499, £2499 - 13% more
Yamaha XF8 $3500, £3107 - 30% more - not in my equation because I wouldn't consider buying one.
Kronos 61 $2999, £2599 - 28% more
Kronos 73 $3499, £2999 - 27.5% more
Kronos 88 $3799, £3199 - 26% more

Now if Roland can make money in the EU by only charging 13-18% why are Korg 26-28% and Yamaha 30%....? It seems to me that my initial assertion that Korg is 15% overpriced in Europe still stands.

Now here is a big shock DSI Prophet 08 US $2099, UK £1498 - 13% more - If Dave Smith can do the same as Roland - then surely Korg can ....!

We are not being supplied the stock because Korg think we dont want to buy the Kronos (which is not true) - but (potentially) we are being ripped off by 10-15% on the price.. Just my humble opinion but backed up by the numbers....

michelkeijzers · Post by **michelkeijzers** » Thu Jul 07, 2011 5:18 pm

Actually Korg would make more money if they sell in Europe, considering they split the extra middle-man addition.

Guess every European should get something like 15% price reduction.

EvilDragon · Post by **EvilDragon** » Thu Jul 07, 2011 5:44 pm

They would earn less because a lot of people won't even consider to buy at those prices.

3k€ for 61 key is a complete fail, at least over here where I live.

danatkorg · Post by **danatkorg** » Thu Jul 07, 2011 6:10 pm

danatkorg wrote:
I've just compared the prices of the Fantom G8, Motif XF8, and KRONOS 88 at two major retailers: Musician's Friend in the USA, and Digital Village in the UK. All three are more expensive in the UK, based on current exchange rates.

Fantom G8: 33% higher
Motif XF8: 40% higher
KRONOS 88: 35% higher

I don't know all of the factors which cause these differences, but it seems like the increase is relatively uniform, with the KRONOS in the middle of the pack.

In re there only being a few available: this is the case in the USA as well. Supply is constrained. Customers have only been able to buy 61s for a few weeks, and the very first customers are starting to get weighted-key models now.

RKfan wrote:Here is some more data comparing Sweetwater and DV247 (exchange rate £1 = $1.61)

Roland G8 $3799, £2909 - 18% more

Sure, Sweetwater's price on the G8 is higher than MF's, which will make the difference less. MF sells it for $3499 with extra stand and seat, a 33% difference from DVD247: http://www.musiciansfriend.com/keyboard ... 8000000000

RKfan wrote:Roland Jupiter 80 $3499, £2499 - 13% more

I may have been doing my premise a disservice by looking at DV247's prices; they seem to advertise deeper discounts on some products than retailers in the states or on the continent. In contrast Thomann advertises the JP-80 for 2999 Euros, which is currently equivalent to £2685.6255 (almost £200 more than DV) and $4308.36. That's a 23% difference, not 13%. The retail price quoted by Thomann is 28% higher than the list price in the USA, so they're giving a greater discount than MF.

RKfan wrote:Now if Roland can make money in the EU by only charging 13-18% why are Korg 26-28% and Yamaha 30%....? It seems to me that my initial assertion that Korg is 15% overpriced in Europe still stands.

Now here is a big shock DSI Prophet 08 US $2099, UK £1498 - 13% more - If Dave Smith can do the same as Roland - then surely Korg can ....!

Seems like Digital Village is offering a great discount on the Prophet 08. According to Thomann, the list price is 2193 Euros, equivalent to $3150.46 - 36% higher than the US list of $2309. Thomann actually offers more of a discount from list than US retailers do; their selling price is almost exactly 30% higher than Musician's Friend.

So, in general, it looks like there's about a 30% difference across the board with all manufacturers noted, give or take.

RKfan wrote:We are not being supplied the stock because Korg think we dont want to buy the Kronos

I'm not sure what you're basing that on. As noted earlier, the Kronos shipped first in Japan, then in the USA, then in Europe - a normal rollout across the globe - and supplies are constrained everywhere.