What's the reason you DIDN'T buy a Kronos?

clipnotic · Post by **clipnotic** » Thu Jul 21, 2011 10:56 pm

ok I hope I understood all your replies right - my english is not the best

And please don't get me wrong!

I think the Kronos is currently the best workstation on the market and I like the Korg sounds very much, too! I think Korg has some of the best sound designers ...

And if you compare the Kronos with other workstations ... yes the Kronos is the best!

But the Kronos sequencer for example is lightyears away from sequencers you can use since many years in your DAW! I'm sorry but a sequencer without a piano roll for example is useless ... !

If i had to decide ONLY between the current workstations on the market, I would buy the Kronos, too

BUT there are so many other and more modern and flexible ways today to work. And for 3.000 EUR you can get a much better equipment!

And the pc technology today is mature!

I don't find a reason to pay 3.000 EUR für a new Korg Workstation!

- If I need wonderful Pads or anlogue sounds = Omnisphere (369 EUR)
- If I need nice natural sounds = East West (500 EUR - 1000 EUR)
- If I need anlogue synth plugins there are millions of them available (µTonic = 89 EUR, Synplant = 99 EUR, Sylenth = 129 EUR, Albino 3 = 199 EUR .... there are too much of them

)

So, what are the special features, Kronos have, if you compare with the whole market and not only with workstations?

Mike Conway · Post by **Mike Conway** » Thu Jul 21, 2011 11:18 pm

clipnotic wrote:the Kronos sequencer for example is lightyears away from sequencers you can use since many years in your DAW! I'm sorry but a sequencer without a piano roll for example is useless ... !

...........And the pc technology today is mature!

I don't find a reason to pay 3.000 EUR für a new Korg Workstation!

- If I need wonderful Pads or anlogue sounds = Omnisphere (369 EUR)
- If I need nice natural sounds = East West (500 EUR - 1000 EUR)
- If I need anlogue synth plugins there are millions of them available (µTonic = 89 EUR, Synplant = 99 EUR, Sylenth = 129 EUR, Albino 3 = 199 EUR .... there are too much of them )

If you're happy with those items, you don't need a specific synth to make music. The closest a workstation got to having a sequencer you might like is probably the Roland/Cakewalk collaboration on the Fantom G.

So, what are the special features, Kronos have, if you compare with the whole market and not only with workstations?

Most likely engineering differences like the super low aliasing at higher frequencies, which is noticable in most synths, especially after playing with Kronos a while. The control surface (Vector, knob/slider functions, touchscreen). KARMA. Processing your voice - bus through synths - example HERE, multiple FX, Vocoder, etc. - see 1:10 mark, HERE. The actual character of any of the Korg VAs and Models compared to some others. If you don't notice it when demoing a Kronos then it's probably not going to make much difference to you.

michelkeijzers · Post by **michelkeijzers** » Thu Jul 21, 2011 11:39 pm

clipnotic wrote: And the pc technology today is mature!

I don't know if I would rely on a computer while gigging. Not a pc nor a mac. Besides I need at least two keyboards to play on, and I don't like excessive gear. So if I have to drag a pc / laptop with me, it's still an additional piece of gear with cables that can break etc.

clipnotic · Post by **clipnotic** » Fri Jul 22, 2011 7:12 am

OK, so are this the special features of the Kronos?:

1. Kronos is a very compact live instrument
2. KARMA
3. Kronos has aliasing free and very good sounds
4. Kronos has nice effects and good routing possibilities

And that's it, right?

1a.)
You are right, that's an advantage

2a.)
Look at plugins like SugarBytes "Thesys" or "Consequence" and if you have a good developed piano roll like in FL Studio for example, you won't need KARMA anymore

but you are right KARMA is a nice special feature

3a.)
yes many plugins have aliasing effects / artifacts on higher notes. But there are many other plugins, too on the market which don't have

but you are right, Korg Synths have a great sound and the Kronos sounds very good - I like that, too!

4a.)
That's not an advantage, you can do things like this with every DAW and there you can use and route as many effects as and how you like. And there you can use effects like Waves or Flux ..., too!

summary for me:

The Kronos is a nice Live Keyboard with very good sounds an a nice comp called KARMA and you have a "little" sequencer to save some ideas - The End!

BUT:

The Kronos is not a production tool and not a pc alternative! You still have to arrange and produce with your PC / Mac and eventually you can use a wobbly Kronos Plugin for this!

But that is what Korg asserts! And to convince the musicians, they integrate some semi-finished features, too and for that you have to pay, too! And that is what they do since many years and with many workstations they developed! And yes, other manufacturer do the same and with every new version, they look to the competition ... and bit by bit you get some more little features ... you know what I mean ... but that's the reason that users like me and many other musicians I know, don't buy new workstations! The steps are all too small! And good sounds are not only available at a Korg Workstation!

That not always has something to do with the money but rather with the time you have to spend to find out which features are still not available! And you can't be sure that a new workstation has new features, too in all areas - look at the Kronos sequencer!

I think it's time for a workstation which is complete! But the Kronos isn't!

Give this workstation a professional sequencer and the possibility to connect a 22", 24" ... external Display and I would think about buying a little bit more

jahrome · Post by **jahrome** » Fri Jul 22, 2011 7:34 am

Synthesizedclapping wrote:
MartinHines wrote:

Unless I am missing something I don't see how one could increase the font sizes without having to redesign all of the screens.
If you look at the font below the knobs. You're telling me they couldnt make that bigger? And those play and mute buttons? I'm sure they could increase the size of those buttons, hence more room for the words

They could simply add additional pages like previous Korg workstations. Instead of showing all 16 programs on 1 screen, split it into two pages.

michelkeijzers · Post by **michelkeijzers** » Fri Jul 22, 2011 8:01 am

I haven't seen the Kronos in real life so I don't know how small it really is. However for the font size:
- For the play/mute buttons, you now after a few minutes what is displayed there so it's not that importing.

For test rest of the text which is variable you can have a good point: splitting over two screens.

Both would be nice to be options to keep anybody happy, but as always: options cost (development/testing) money. And somehow synth makers do not want to support personalize synths too much, I don't know why.

StephenKay · Post by **StephenKay** » Fri Jul 22, 2011 8:14 am

michelkeijzers wrote:I haven't seen the Kronos in real life so I don't know how small it really is. However for the font size:
- For the play/mute buttons, you know after a few minutes what is displayed there so it's not that important.

(I edited your text to be what I think you meant)
It doesn't matter if you know what those buttons display. Those buttons are what you can touch on the screen to actually mute/unmute the timbres/tracks. They are *functional*. Yes, you can activate them from the control surface if you are in the Mix Mode. But what if you are in the RT/KARMA Mode? The on screen buttons still function. Therefore, they are not somehow redundant or unnecessary, as you seem to suggest. They are useful.

michelkeijzers · Post by **michelkeijzers** » Fri Jul 22, 2011 9:12 am

StephenKay wrote:
michelkeijzers wrote:I haven't seen the Kronos in real life so I don't know how small it really is. However for the font size:
- For the play/mute buttons, you know after a few minutes what is displayed there so it's not that important.
(I edited your text to be what I think you meant)
It doesn't matter if you know what those buttons display. Those buttons are what you can touch on the screen to actually mute/unmute the timbres/tracks. They are *functional*. Yes, you can activate them from the control surface if you are in the Mix Mode. But what if you are in the RT/KARMA Mode? The on screen buttons still function. Therefore, they are not somehow redundant or unnecessary, as you seem to suggest. They are useful.

What I meant was that they are functional but the texts are always the same (play/mute). But now I doubt since in Karma they might have different texts. If so, then having a bit bigger size font would be (even more) necessary.

The Kronos will be my first synth with Karma, so a new world to discover

Mystic38 · Post by **Mystic38** » Fri Jul 22, 2011 11:29 am

Why all the debate..? Folks are stating why they are not buying a Kronos..

For any new synth you will get as reason..
A. It doesn't do anything I can't do already (doubtful, but ok, can't argue)
B. Laptop & soft synths are better and cheaper (BS but pointless to argue)
C. Price high, cant afford it, (oh well)
D. Manf x screwed me remember? I hate x ( get over it)

There are some valid reasons for not wanting a Kronos.. But when a poster rabbits on with the above items does anyone really think a page of debate will change their mind?..

After all, you can take a horse to water but you can't make it drink

Mike Conway · Post by **Mike Conway** » Fri Jul 22, 2011 12:01 pm

Mystic38 wrote:Why all the debate..? Folks are stating why they are not buying a Kronos..

Actually, I was debating clipnotic's statement:

Very hard for people which bought an Oasys, paid in Germany for example 8.000 EUR for it and thought they would get an open future-proof system

There is no future proof, but the product got a lot of upgrades, which is what I wanted to point out. I then answered some specific questions. It is apparent that he is a DAW user through and through, while I am a hardware guy. I'm not trying to change that, which is why I said, "you don't need any specific synth to make music."

I totally respect the thread. I doubt that I will be getting a Kronos, either. If my purpose was to sell you on something, I would have posted on page 1. Speaking for myself, anyway.

Zeroesque · Post by **Zeroesque** » Fri Jul 22, 2011 12:57 pm

Mystic38 wrote:There are some valid reasons for not wanting a Kronos.. But when a poster rabbits on with the above items does anyone really think a page of debate will change their mind?..

No joke.

realtrance · Post by **realtrance** » Fri Jul 22, 2011 1:25 pm

Very simple: like almost everything else these days, totally overpriced for what it is.

michelkeijzers · Post by **michelkeijzers** » Fri Jul 22, 2011 2:09 pm

realtrance wrote:Very simple: like almost everything else these days, totally overpriced for what it is.

Price is very relative. If you spent 1000 hrs with a Kronos, it costs about $3 an hour. A car is more expensive to drive for one hour.

RKfan · Post by **RKfan** » Fri Jul 22, 2011 2:53 pm

Where can you get a $3,000 Kronos in Europe - get me one those!

Based on UK prices the Kronos would be $4.16 per hour for those 1,000 hours.

In my car if I drove it for 1,000 hours - I would have driven it 80-100,000+ KM (and seen the world) . If I had 1,000 hours on the Kronos - I will have sold a chart topping hit or two (with luck) and be able to replace my now tired car... (or more likely got a bit better at playing and missed out seeing the world, but had a blast mucking about with sound)...

I am not sure if the Kronos can be compared to a car?

michelkeijzers · Post by **michelkeijzers** » Fri Jul 22, 2011 4:02 pm

Ok: $4,16 in Europe (for me too).

What I wanted to say is that one has to decide for himself if it's worth the money. If you use the Kronos only once in a while it might be expensive, for people using it for a living (not me), like 8 hrs a day, it's cheap, or at least the cost is less important.