Building Question for studio builders and sound guys

jazlover · Post by **jazlover** » Fri Sep 09, 2011 2:12 am

I am building a box (10 feet by 12 feet) with a roof. It is going to be a mini-studio at home. I know how to build it and do the electrical. This room is inside a secure warehouse connected to my house.
My question is about insulating the walls of this mini room. I want this small room to be as soundproof as possible (not totally but significantly) within financial reason. What is a good cheap way to insulate sound in between the walls of this box.

Thanks

ShaneLessor · Post by **ShaneLessor** » Sun Oct 02, 2011 11:02 pm

Acoustic Paneling. It can be quite expensive, but you can always do it the redneck way, you know, blankets and duct tape. Old couch foam, who knows? Be creative, you'd be surprised what works. Still, in my mind, nothing beats the real thing. You really do get what you pay for. I've yet to see an outstanding home remedy for this, and if there is one, I'd be interested too.

michelkeijzers · Post by **michelkeijzers** » Mon Oct 03, 2011 12:03 am

In our rehearsal rooms we use blankets and a lot of egg boxes tied together with strings. Egg boxes are cheap and they really make the room itself a lot echo-less.

ShaneLessor · Post by **ShaneLessor** » Mon Oct 03, 2011 11:19 am

Egg boxes seem like a great idea! I can see why they'd work.

SanderXpander · Post by **SanderXpander** » Mon Oct 03, 2011 11:33 am

I'm not an expert on "how to do it right", but make sure to not discount the floor, especially for low frequencies. Also, try to have as little "solid" connections to the main building as you can.

michelkeijzers · Post by **michelkeijzers** » Mon Oct 03, 2011 12:03 pm

SanderXpander wrote:I'm not an expert on "how to do it right", but make sure to not discount the floor, especially for low frequencies. Also, try to have as little "solid" connections to the main building as you can.

In our rehearsal room we have about 3 layers of thick clothes (don't know the original name) ... very cheap (you probably can get it for (almost) free because people tend to do away such floor mats/clothes when a spot is on them. Only the upper layer needs to be clean (if you want it to be).

xmlguy · Post by **xmlguy** » Mon Oct 03, 2011 4:47 pm

michelkeijzers wrote:
SanderXpander wrote:I'm not an expert on "how to do it right", but make sure to not discount the floor, especially for low frequencies. Also, try to have as little "solid" connections to the main building as you can.
In our rehearsal room we have about 3 layers of thick clothes (don't know the original name) ... very cheap (you probably can get it for (almost) free because people tend to do away such floor mats/clothes when a spot is on them. Only the upper layer needs to be clean (if you want it to be).

Do you sometimes find yourself in Narnia?

michelkeijzers · Post by **michelkeijzers** » Mon Oct 03, 2011 9:35 pm

xmlguy wrote:
michelkeijzers wrote:
SanderXpander wrote:I'm not an expert on "how to do it right", but make sure to not discount the floor, especially for low frequencies. Also, try to have as little "solid" connections to the main building as you can.
In our rehearsal room we have about 3 layers of thick clothes (don't know the original name) ... very cheap (you probably can get it for (almost) free because people tend to do away such floor mats/clothes when a spot is on them. Only the upper layer needs to be clean (if you want it to be).
Do you sometimes find yourself in Narnia?

Maybe 'cloth' was not a good term (or my poor English can't see the joke in it). Carpet ... that was the word I was looking for ... (and not the flying kind ... altough a little bit of flying could achieve extra isolation).

xmlguy · Post by **xmlguy** » Mon Oct 03, 2011 9:58 pm

michelkeijzers wrote:
xmlguy wrote:
michelkeijzers wrote: In our rehearsal room we have about 3 layers of thick clothes (don't know the original name) ... very cheap (you probably can get it for (almost) free because people tend to do away such floor mats/clothes when a spot is on them. Only the upper layer needs to be clean (if you want it to be).
Do you sometimes find yourself in Narnia?
Maybe 'cloth' was not a good term (or my poor English can't see the joke in it). Carpet ... that was the word I was looking for ... (and not the flying kind ... altough a little bit of flying could achieve extra isolation).

Yes, clothes have a dual meaning, usually referring to the garments that people wear, not the fabric floor covering we call rugs and carpets. It can be funny when non-native english speakers mix them up.

Sorry, it was a somewhat obscure cultural reference to the C.S. Lewis book series which started with "The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe", that was recently turned into blockbuster movies. The Wardrobe is a closet filled with clothes (coats, garments) in which the children hide, only to discover that it's a magical doorway to a winter fantasy world on the other side named Narnia.

DaveBoulden · Post by **DaveBoulden** » Mon Oct 03, 2011 11:26 pm

Sorry to butt in here, but egg-boxes do absolutely nothing but give your wall a funny look... they make no difference to sound proofing and barely any discernable difference as an acoustic treatment. Two things alone sound proof a room, mass and an airtight seal. You can have solid stone walls, but if you leave an air-vent, the sound will just pour out the air-vent. Any attempts to soundproof the room will need to be matched with some sort of baffled air ventilation as you'll need to make the room airtight and without some fresh airflow, you'll suffocate!... that's why studios have thick or even double heavy doors with neoprene seals and air-con.

You've got a couple of options... double skin brick or concrete block walls and fill the internal gap with sand or go for double non-connected stud walls internally filled with rockwool, then double skinned plasterboard on both sides sandwiched with 5Kg/sq.m polymer sheet (something like this product: http://www.soundservice.co.uk/soundproo ... _SBM5.html), same deal for the ceiling and you'll need a floating floor (rafters sitting on neoprene pads to decouple them from the floor) to prevent sound transmission through the main floor. You'll have to put neoprene seals on the doors... used 2 consecutive doors, otherwise the rest of the soundproofing measures are pointless. Finally, install some air-con or at least some air ventilation equpiment, but make it run through a baffle box to again prevent sound leakage.

michelkeijzers · Post by **michelkeijzers** » Mon Oct 03, 2011 11:51 pm

I didn't say egg boxes were good for isolation, but it helps to decrease the echo ... if you have bricks oppositive of eachother then the sound reflects between the walls. With egg boxes (at least I have the feeling) it decreases. Of course solid material will be better but egg boxes are very cheap.

michelkeijzers · Post by **michelkeijzers** » Mon Oct 03, 2011 11:52 pm

xmlguy wrote:
michelkeijzers wrote:
xmlguy wrote: Do you sometimes find yourself in Narnia?
Maybe 'cloth' was not a good term (or my poor English can't see the joke in it). Carpet ... that was the word I was looking for ... (and not the flying kind ... altough a little bit of flying could achieve extra isolation).
Yes, clothes have a dual meaning, usually referring to the garments that people wear, not the fabric floor covering we call rugs and carpets. It can be funny when non-native english speakers mix them up.

Sorry, it was a somewhat obscure cultural reference to the C.S. Lewis book series which started with "The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe", that was recently turned into blockbuster movies. The Wardrobe is a closet filled with clothes (coats, garments) in which the children hide, only to discover that it's a magical doorway to a winter fantasy world on the other side named Narnia.

No problem and thanks for the clarification ... and yes ... I'm not a native English speaker/writer. Actually I do speak and write a lot in English, but not the word cloth (if I can remember), more technical words normally.

DaveBoulden · Post by **DaveBoulden** » Tue Oct 04, 2011 12:09 am

michelkeijzers wrote:I didn't say egg boxes were good for isolation, but it helps to decrease the echo ... if you have bricks oppositive of eachother then the sound reflects between the walls. With egg boxes (at least I have the feeling) it decreases. Of course solid material will be better but egg boxes are very cheap.

Sorry, I didn't explain myself very well. The description I gave was for the sound-proofing only. On top of that you need to add acoustic treatment. I'm sorry to tell you that egg-boxes still do nothing to affect reverberent sound in a room... trust me, they really don't! The best option on a budget is to create super-chunk bass traps in the corners (triangular floor to ceiling stacks of rockwool batts across the corners covered in acoustically transparent material) and then place broadband traps around the walls at the mirror points between speakers and listening position... or where it is used purely as a practise room, then it's a bit more trial and error placing the wall traps. These traps can be made in a DIY fashion by building an 8ft x 4ft (or similar size) wooden frame from 4"x1" timber, like a shallow box... with cross pieces so that it looks like a stud wall. Fill the gaps with rockwool and cover in acoustically transparent material. Hang these from the wall with a 2"-3" gap between it and the wall.

xmlguy · Post by **xmlguy** » Tue Oct 04, 2011 1:28 am

I agree with everything that DaveBoulden said, and I disagree with all of the typical homemade acoustical...uh...treatments, like egg crates and shag carpeting. I was going to suggest reinforced shotcrete for the construction material. You might as well have a good bomb shelter, and good bomb shelters have very good sound insulating properties.

michelkeijzers · Post by **michelkeijzers** » Tue Oct 04, 2011 2:02 pm

We not only used egg boxes, but also curtains tied to the wall and bedsheets at about 2 meters height and the 3 layers of carpet. And it really changes the reverberation of the room a lot. I know the sound probably goes right through the egg boxes or curtains, but everyone can hear a lot of difference.

It is not that I will not believe you, but maybe all the amateur actions taken takes away 10% of the reverb iso 80-100% in case of a professional solution. But the 10% makes a lot of difference to me.