Sound Designing and Mixing

[BasariStudios]

Over the years of Sound Designing and Mixing (Mostly) i've realized
one thing...once you finish the Mix the first time or once you finish
editing a sound first time...after that everytime you touch it again
you screw it up...it always happens to me. Many times i did great sounds
and posted Demos here, people were amazed, the next day out of stupidity
i touch it again and edited again...then it sounds like crap and you can
never get it back again as it was at the begining...
Whats everyone elses experience?
My point is at least to me, once i finish it the first time it is better
if i make THAT the final Edit or Mix otherwise i always screw it up after.

[Sharp]

Personally, I prefer to do the opposite because I find that your ears can be coloured to hear something a certain way during recording or designing.

Sort of like if you went into a room with only a red light inside for 10 minutes. When you come out your eye sight is coloured and takes time to revert to normal. I find the same with sound.

Same when recording bands. I never master a track on the same day it was recorded.

Regards
Sharp

[Ksynth]

Always work on a copy of the original file then you can go back.

Basic stuff really.

[BasariStudios]

I mean i make copies of the original first sound but what i mean by I CANT GET
IT LIKE THE FIRST TIME is that by editing only, not lost it and dont have it.
It sux...then another thing, i make a Sound, sounds great and the next day
i play the same Sound and it sounds like crap...lolz.

[NuSkoolTone]

I'm a big fan of the "Compare" button. Though I wish there were a couple more facilities to aid with programming. It'd be nice if the buffer was still accessible after changing presets. It'd also be nice if you could AUDITION the patch you're about to overwrite when trying to decide where to save your new creation!

[cynkh]

Over the years of Sound Designing and Mixing (Mostly) i've realized
one thing...once you finish the Mix the first time or once you finish
editing a sound first time...after that everytime you touch it again
you screw it up...it always happens to me. Many times i did great sounds
and posted Demos here, people were amazed, the next day out of stupidity
i touch it again and edited again...then it sounds like crap and you can
never get it back again as it was at the begining...
Whats everyone elses experience?
My point is at least to me, once i finish it the first time it is better
if i make THAT the final Edit or Mix otherwise i always screw it up after.

It's the same with software development. Fortunately for coders there are versioning utilities out there. With mixing and sound design, though, you kind of have to manually do your "versioning"- like comp swiping.
The perfect example is when I was playing around with AL-1 yesterday and came up with a really nice shimmering pad sound with lots of nice animation. I came up with a suitably cheesy name for the patch and began to tweak with it a bit and ended up with 3 additional variants- all pads. I thought I was saving them all to separate slots but I was actually overwriting the original 4 times in a row.
I guess if you want to be thorough you should save each version you do with a separate name- suffixes work well, like serial numbers: "Cheesy Pad", "Cheesy Pad_1", "Cheesy Pad_2", etc. The other trick is making sure to be consistent and not overwrite the originals.
At any rate, I feel your pain and hope this presents good advice or at least something to ponder over.

Good luck and happy tweaking!

[BasariStudios]

I thought I was saving them all to separate slots but I was actually overwriting the original 4 times in a row.

Hahahahahaha...i almost chocked on an Orange...i have done that millions of
times...sometimes it gets you suicidal...then i shut it off and i go smoke...

[cynkh]

I thought I was saving them all to separate slots but I was actually overwriting the original 4 times in a row.

Hahahahahaha...i almost chocked on an Orange...i have done that millions of
times...sometimes it gets you suicidal...then i shut it off and i go smoke...

I hear that! Some days I'm in a good enough mood and have a decent enough sense of humor to just walk away and come back. Most of the time, though (:P), I end up obsessing over the original sound I had and beating into the ground until my ears give out on me.
The best thing if you lose the sound is to remember not the steps that got you to it technically, but rather the inspiration which guided you to the sound. Then you're not having to remember knob tweak by knob tweak and parameter adjustment by parameter adjustment but just, "Hey, I remember thinking this would be sweeter sounding with a PWM oscillator and an LFO sweeping the filter and maybe some nice mellow delay."

Good luck and remember (especially when eating oranges): you've got an epiglottis for a reason; trachea = air only, esophagus = orange is all right!
Cheers!

[michelkeijzers]

What also helps is FIRST copy a program to a free (another) location and then start to change. Then you never have the problem of accidentally overwriting the original.

[QuiRobinez]

my workflow is different.

I always record a test track using my first 'finished' sound or combi. A couple of days later i listen again to that recording and almost every time i hear a lot of things that could be better or differently. Then i modify the sound or combi and record it again to listen to it days later untill the sound or combi is finished for release.

works perfectly for me

[michelkeijzers]

my workflow is different.

I always record a test track using my first 'finished' sound or combi. A couple of days later i listen again to that recording and almost every time i hear a lot of things that could be better or differently. Then i modify the sound or combi and record it again to listen to it days later untill the sound or combi is finished for release.

works perfectly for me

Yes I do that also, especially when I can't find a solution or did something complicated it's best to look at it a few days later. Meantime you thought about it and you probably find a solution (or thought about a better sound in your case).

[cynkh]

my workflow is different.

I always record a test track using my first 'finished' sound or combi. A couple of days later i listen again to that recording and almost every time i hear a lot of things that could be better or differently. Then i modify the sound or combi and record it again to listen to it days later untill the sound or combi is finished for release.

works perfectly for me

I have the same "technique" for working on "tracks" but I tend to let the recordings sit around long enough that I've forgotten that it was even me that wrote them in the first place. Maybe a similar approach to patch creation is worth a try!

Thanks for the advice!

[RonF]

Interesting topic, BasariStudios!

This is why in Pro studio's there is always a Producer who is separate from the composers and artists. We take it for granted in the home/project studio age.....but having an objective mind and set of ears to direct and control the mix process is an important variable in successful productions. When you wear all the hats (artist, sound designer, mix engineer, and producer) you run the risk of not seeing the forest for the trees. When you put your producer hat on....you need to be as hard on your artist-self, as some corporate producer would be on you if he (and you) were under contract. This means.....throwing beloved tracks and ideas to the cutting room floor, in favor of the deadline, the budget, and the overall production quality.

With this in mind.....I tend to work in phases.....sound designing....composing....mixing....mastering. And I try to do these things discretely.....in different sessions. This brings a perspective to your productions you wouldn't otherwise have. Many of us tend to master the final product as we work along the way. Constantly tweaking with no limitations or deadlines can indeed blow the inspiration or sparkle of an original concept.

But when you sound design and be done with it. Then use those sounds to record and track a composition, and be done with it. Then use that material (because that is all you have!) to mix the project, and be done with it. Then master your mix, and deliver it! This tends to deliver a more inspired and quality work product, in my experience.

[jeremykeys]

Wow! Talk about a ton of ideas here. I find myself that I DO tend to wear all the hats at the same time and often that's detrimental to the song.
As for tweaking sounds, I have a bank that I use to store the factory sound in as I mess with it. It's not like there isn't enough spaces and even if I do over-write something I can always save the information on a separate system and then do a re-boot.
I think that if anybody ever gets to the point where they've used up all of the slots on the Kronos they've done good work!

[michelkeijzers]

Wow! Talk about a ton of ideas here. I find myself that I DO tend to wear all the hats at the same time and often that's detrimental to the song.
As for tweaking sounds, I have a bank that I use to store the factory sound in as I mess with it. It's not like there isn't enough spaces and even if I do over-write something I can always save the information on a separate system and then do a re-boot.
I think that if anybody ever gets to the point where they've used up all of the slots on the Kronos they've done good work!

You always can load separate programs/combis in case you want to restore only part of it.

(and with PCG Tools you can copy paste/banks or parts of it).