Kronos report for those planning to purchase
Moderators: Sharp, X-Trade, Pepperpotty, karmathanever
i think anyone who plays keyboards or composes music would want to play the best keyboard on the market,the kronos is the flagship for korg and is well worthy of that due to the tech that is packed inside it...but korg also needs to know that when a person pays $3000.00 plus for the kronos they expect to at least have alot of the bugs fixed before the keyboard is announced.i had my 61 key since sept and i cannot use it due to the save bug.i do not want to write a song that i cannot load and continue writing the next day.this was a major bug for a company like korg to have missed.so i am waiting for the 1.5 firmware like most kronos owners are to completely enjoy the keyboard.i know korg will get this corrected and it has not made me think differently about their products.i have to see this as a (rare) mishap and being a user of products and keyboards since 2003 will still support the company.
To conquer others is to have power.....
To conquer yourself is to know the way.
To conquer yourself is to know the way.
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michelkeijzers
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I'm not sure if this is the flag ship. I think for sonic / features it is, BUT the sequencer of the M3 seems to be a little better and the controller/build quality of the Oasys is better. So actually there is no real flagship (or there are 2 or 3).mailman00 wrote:i think anyone who plays keyboards or composes music would want to play the best keyboard on the market,the kronos is the flagship for korg ...
Developer of the free PCG file managing application for most Korg workstations: PCG Tools, see https://www.kronoshaven.com/pcgtools/
I have read a TON of nonsense about Kronos mainly in other fora.
I LOVE this board and she is by no means "cheap" to me. Okay, I never owned an OASYS, but as a long time Roland user, I AM used to keyboards built like tanks and whether you love or hate Roland, they DO know how to make sturdy keyboards (workstation class at least). My Kronos has had zero failures and it gets transported and played a LOT.
Thanks for this POSITIVE thread about a great instrument.
Ahimsa,
Vlad
PS; To Aron, I notice you do not list your JP-8000 in your sig anymore. I know that you DID love it. Did you ditch it man?
I LOVE this board and she is by no means "cheap" to me. Okay, I never owned an OASYS, but as a long time Roland user, I AM used to keyboards built like tanks and whether you love or hate Roland, they DO know how to make sturdy keyboards (workstation class at least). My Kronos has had zero failures and it gets transported and played a LOT.
Thanks for this POSITIVE thread about a great instrument.
Ahimsa,
Vlad
PS; To Aron, I notice you do not list your JP-8000 in your sig anymore. I know that you DID love it. Did you ditch it man?
Current gear: Kronos, Jupiter 80, Kurzweil PC3,Roland Fantom X8, Roland XV-88 (yep, its old, but the ACTION is heaven and those XV-3080 sounds are still wonderful for me), Radias-R, Motif ES (yeah it's older but I love the guitars 
)
)Current Kronos bashing spectacle being played out
Perhaps there would not be so much discussion surrounding Kronos if expectations about it did not run so high. Remember what Spiderman's uncle said before he died: with great power comes great responsibility.
Suffice it to say, Kronos lives up to the expectations surrounding it. Kronos is the current pinnacle of musical perfection, possessing very great power, indeed. Those of us who love it and appreciate its awesomeness are going to champion it's virtues loudly; being the King of the pile, it's detractors will fiercely throw their stones at the one thing that looms the largest on the horizon and casts a long shadow over all that they hold dear.
It's Highlander time, friends, and in the end there can be only one. For those of us who recognize true greatness when we see it, Kronos is that one. There are two types of people in the world: those who own a Kronos or are destined to get one, and then there is everyone else.
This isn't too over the top, is it?
Suffice it to say, Kronos lives up to the expectations surrounding it. Kronos is the current pinnacle of musical perfection, possessing very great power, indeed. Those of us who love it and appreciate its awesomeness are going to champion it's virtues loudly; being the King of the pile, it's detractors will fiercely throw their stones at the one thing that looms the largest on the horizon and casts a long shadow over all that they hold dear.
It's Highlander time, friends, and in the end there can be only one. For those of us who recognize true greatness when we see it, Kronos is that one. There are two types of people in the world: those who own a Kronos or are destined to get one, and then there is everyone else.
This isn't too over the top, is it?
Decision not obvious for new buyers
Let me open by saying that I'm happy with my KRONOS. I am seeing the keybed issues that have been reported, and they are annoying. Mine will need repair, aand that will be a major bother when it happens. Even so, it's a great tool and one I would recommend.
That said, I have been able to reproduce the cutoff problem on every RH3 machine I have tested, and it is a real issue. We don't know yet whether this problem can be fixed in software, so there is a valid concern in the mind of purchasers at this moment concerning the degree of disruption they can expect.
No company likes to lose holiday sales, but if the keybed fix requires physical replacement, the financial impact on Korg could be considerable. Depending on the percentage of machines impacted and the eventual cost of the repair, selling lots of synths may or may not be good for Korg right now. Right now, we don't know.
I'm not saying buy, and I'm not saying wait. I'm saying that we need to be respectful of buyer concerns. We should be honest, but we should not exaggerate the problem.
If Korg can say whether the problem has been resolved on machines with serial number X or higher, I know that would ease my mind recommending the purchase. Is such a statement possible? Equally good, has Korg determined whether the problem can be resolved in software? Either way would alleviate the customer worry about returns.
That said, I have been able to reproduce the cutoff problem on every RH3 machine I have tested, and it is a real issue. We don't know yet whether this problem can be fixed in software, so there is a valid concern in the mind of purchasers at this moment concerning the degree of disruption they can expect.
No company likes to lose holiday sales, but if the keybed fix requires physical replacement, the financial impact on Korg could be considerable. Depending on the percentage of machines impacted and the eventual cost of the repair, selling lots of synths may or may not be good for Korg right now. Right now, we don't know.
I'm not saying buy, and I'm not saying wait. I'm saying that we need to be respectful of buyer concerns. We should be honest, but we should not exaggerate the problem.
If Korg can say whether the problem has been resolved on machines with serial number X or higher, I know that would ease my mind recommending the purchase. Is such a statement possible? Equally good, has Korg determined whether the problem can be resolved in software? Either way would alleviate the customer worry about returns.
Motif XF8, Kronos-88 (ordered), V-Synth GT, DT-Extreme eDrums
PC Core i7-920/24GB/3TB (2x)
Motu 2408mk3 + 24I/O
Sonar Producer, everything EastWest
Brian Moore iGuitar+Roland GI-20, Composite Acoustics 6, 12 string guitars, Multiple Ovations from when they were still worth it
Presonus Eureka (2x), TC Helicon VoiceOne
ADAM A7's and JBL 4328Ps, each for its purpose
Border Collies + Misc. Squeaky Toys
PC Core i7-920/24GB/3TB (2x)
Motu 2408mk3 + 24I/O
Sonar Producer, everything EastWest
Brian Moore iGuitar+Roland GI-20, Composite Acoustics 6, 12 string guitars, Multiple Ovations from when they were still worth it
Presonus Eureka (2x), TC Helicon VoiceOne
ADAM A7's and JBL 4328Ps, each for its purpose
Border Collies + Misc. Squeaky Toys
Re: Decision not obvious for new buyers
It is bad enough, if a complete batch of keybeds or whatever causes this kind of problem.shap wrote:If Korg can say whether the problem has been resolved on machines with serial number X or higher, I know that would ease my mind recommending the purchase. Is such a statement possible? Equally good, has Korg determined whether the problem can be resolved in software? Either way would alleviate the customer worry about returns.
But I have an early Kronos 73 (serial number 72) and have not experienced cutoff notes at all, over months. So I doubt very much that it is a common problem appearing up to a certain serial number on present devices. And I know enough other Kronos 73/88 users who tell me they don't have the problem.
I also NEVER faced something like a song saving problem before, don't even remember having heard about such a thing before. I can only repeat that my Kronos is working fine - all the time, and with none of the problems described. And I know enough people having just as much glitch free fun with it as myself. So while I take problems of others serious, I see no reason to generalise existing problems completely out of proportion.
The Kronos has become the absolute center piece of my gear in no time, and I see nothing changing that in the near future.
Kronos 73 - Moog Voyager RME - Moog LP TE - Behringer Model D - Prophet 6 - Roland Jupiter Xm - Rhodes Stage 73 Mk I - Elektron Analog Rytm MkII - Roland TR-6s - Cubase 12 Pro + Groove Agent 5
Not to throw a spanner in the works or to derail this thread, if your going to have a thread entitled "Kronos report for those planning to purchase" then it has to contain both pros and cons.
I too like the OP wear glasses and find the writing on my M3 a strain to read which is why I brought Cubase. Just because the OP can read the screen fine with glasses doesn't mean everyone with glasses can, different people have different things wrong with their eyes and if some people find the screen hard to read, then I don't see what's wrong in a korg forum with them politely saying so.
As the Op requests, I do 100% respect what they're saying, they have had zero problems and it is nice to know many people are having no problems.
But it leaves me personally in an odd position, I will say how I feel, but I also suspect I could be in muddy waters as by doing so, I have to mention the keybed problem which looks like I am complaining in this thread when there's already one thread purposely for that problem.
But for an overall picture for those wanting to purchase, I think we need to look at the whole picture.
I WANT a Kronos, I am probably a year away from being able to afford one that doesn't stop me reading the Kronos section of this forum and drooling over the prospect every day.
However, if I'm 100% honest, if I did have the funds at the moment, I would not buy. That's not me bashing the Kronos, I'm sure I will end up owning it one day, that's simply me looking at various reports around the web and drawing the conclusion its simply too much of a gamble at the moment.
For me, its not just the keybed issue.
I first had alarm bells when the data wheel issue arose. Yes Korg were very fast in solving the problem and sending out replacement parts, but I had to ask myself, if a product passes various quality tests with a dial held on by a bit of inadequate sticky tape, what else is going to end up wrong with it.
To me that's a very rational point of view. It could be that it was a one off, just a certain amount were released like this due to a screw up somewhere, but it still leads to a little concern about the general design quality in other areas.
Then I see that we're supposed to put packing in the front of the keybed every time we move the Kronos, again that rings alarm bells. Might be easy to do (presuming we don't loose them) but it does sort of look like something went wrong in the design phase and this is a simple cheap fix.
Again to me, it looks like testing failed at a crucial point somewhere and leads me to worry what else might rear its head in 6 months or so down the line.
Then there's the keybed issue. This issue is very bad for some people. Had this been the one and only issue, while its still a nightmare for everyone having the problem, it would have been just one part of the design with a problem (whether a design, assembly, setup/adjustment problem or whatever) but when me as a future purchaser looks at the data wheel, the need for packing, then the problems with the keybed, I start getting very nervous.
Had someone brought a kronos with say serial no 1000, had a faulty bed, got a replacement from their dealer with say sn 1020, that one also faulty, so got their third and this was sn 1040 and this also is bad, then that wouldn't be so bad a thing (from my point of view), as it pin points a bad batch somewhere.
But when someone has had three over a period of months with different serial numbers, I don't care whether the amount of faulty keybeds is 0.00001%, what I do know is that numerous people in the faulty keybed thread have got their replacements only to find exactly the same problem, and this being the case, until the problem is fixed by Korg, I personally would not risk parting with my money and wouldn't advise anyone needing it as their main keyboard or for live use doing the same at the moment.
I don't see a lot of Kronos bashing in the faulty keybed thread, what I do see is a lot of people that have spent a lot of money, dissatisfied with how their problems have been handled. Yes there might be the odd troll there but on the other hand, many people will only search out a forum when they have a problem, hence its quite reasonable for peoples first post to be complaining about their products.
I personally also think its been handled badly by Korg although I do understand how businesses work and how admitting a fault without having a solution first etc can be very damaging. Many people who spend £3000+ on a musical instrument, expect it to work out of the box, and when they have problems and their music store or their korg service centre constantly tells them they are waiting on further info from Korg, well if I was one of those, I too would be fuming.
If I then went on to a forum, found many others with the same problems, then got belittled by others in the thread having no problems at all, that would do nothing to help my mood.
As has been pointed out many times, this isn't an official Korg forum, although their staff do give up their spare time to help when they can, and that's much appreciated. But this is the only place Korg have acknowledged the problem, I cant find any mention of it in the Kronos support sections or faqs on either the US or UK Korg sites.
So again from the end user with a problem, their service centres are waiting to hear from Korg, they see loads of others with the same problems (regardless of numbers, its obvious its enough to realise something is wrong with enough Kronos's for it to be a real problem), yet their stores and service centres cant get any response from Korg, and the only place they have made a comment is here, an unofficial forum, and when people then obviously ask for more info, they get reminded that this isn't an official place.
In other words, a lot of Kronos owners with faulty beds, feel they're in a no win situation and when they do try to put their points across, they get accused of trolling or kronos bashing.
I was on a Piano forum the other day and came across a thread warning people off buying the Kronos due to people suffering problems with the note cutoff (complete with youtube vids)
When someone like PianoManChuck (only using him as an example as he obviously isn't a troll) has had 3 all with problems and implies he's reluctant to risk getting a 4th at the moment, I think that speaks volumes to someone thinking of parting with their money.
That is not me Kronos bashing, it is me using common sense.
There is a further issue with this as I see it. Originally I was hoping that with in a year of the Kronos being released, they would start coming on the second hand market. There's no way on this planet I would ever consider buying a second hand 73/88 due to the keybed problem, unless Korg officially acknowledge that they will fix it even if its not the original owner. That could seriously effect the 2nd hand Kronos value.
The above is me being 100% honest as how I see things from someone who wants to buy (and is saving hard ) a Kronos, ,I am one of those the title of this thread is aimed at, but I have to weigh in everything in my decision of whether I'd part with my cash or not.
There's also been a few people saying their machines have crashed during live performances, again something to be wary about depending on its use, and is also something I probably wouldn't have even given a 2nd glance to if it wasn't on top of the other issues. When there's a serious issue, it naturally makes people look more at other issues.
Of course I've just pointed out the negatives, I know as do the vast majority of complainers in the keybed thread that the Kronos is a superb machine in a class of its own.
But I couldn't honesty advise someone to buy one at the moment unless they're rich with multiple spare keyboards.
I too like the OP wear glasses and find the writing on my M3 a strain to read which is why I brought Cubase. Just because the OP can read the screen fine with glasses doesn't mean everyone with glasses can, different people have different things wrong with their eyes and if some people find the screen hard to read, then I don't see what's wrong in a korg forum with them politely saying so.
As the Op requests, I do 100% respect what they're saying, they have had zero problems and it is nice to know many people are having no problems.
But it leaves me personally in an odd position, I will say how I feel, but I also suspect I could be in muddy waters as by doing so, I have to mention the keybed problem which looks like I am complaining in this thread when there's already one thread purposely for that problem.
But for an overall picture for those wanting to purchase, I think we need to look at the whole picture.
I WANT a Kronos, I am probably a year away from being able to afford one that doesn't stop me reading the Kronos section of this forum and drooling over the prospect every day.
However, if I'm 100% honest, if I did have the funds at the moment, I would not buy. That's not me bashing the Kronos, I'm sure I will end up owning it one day, that's simply me looking at various reports around the web and drawing the conclusion its simply too much of a gamble at the moment.
For me, its not just the keybed issue.
I first had alarm bells when the data wheel issue arose. Yes Korg were very fast in solving the problem and sending out replacement parts, but I had to ask myself, if a product passes various quality tests with a dial held on by a bit of inadequate sticky tape, what else is going to end up wrong with it.
To me that's a very rational point of view. It could be that it was a one off, just a certain amount were released like this due to a screw up somewhere, but it still leads to a little concern about the general design quality in other areas.
Then I see that we're supposed to put packing in the front of the keybed every time we move the Kronos, again that rings alarm bells. Might be easy to do (presuming we don't loose them) but it does sort of look like something went wrong in the design phase and this is a simple cheap fix.
Again to me, it looks like testing failed at a crucial point somewhere and leads me to worry what else might rear its head in 6 months or so down the line.
Then there's the keybed issue. This issue is very bad for some people. Had this been the one and only issue, while its still a nightmare for everyone having the problem, it would have been just one part of the design with a problem (whether a design, assembly, setup/adjustment problem or whatever) but when me as a future purchaser looks at the data wheel, the need for packing, then the problems with the keybed, I start getting very nervous.
Had someone brought a kronos with say serial no 1000, had a faulty bed, got a replacement from their dealer with say sn 1020, that one also faulty, so got their third and this was sn 1040 and this also is bad, then that wouldn't be so bad a thing (from my point of view), as it pin points a bad batch somewhere.
But when someone has had three over a period of months with different serial numbers, I don't care whether the amount of faulty keybeds is 0.00001%, what I do know is that numerous people in the faulty keybed thread have got their replacements only to find exactly the same problem, and this being the case, until the problem is fixed by Korg, I personally would not risk parting with my money and wouldn't advise anyone needing it as their main keyboard or for live use doing the same at the moment.
I don't see a lot of Kronos bashing in the faulty keybed thread, what I do see is a lot of people that have spent a lot of money, dissatisfied with how their problems have been handled. Yes there might be the odd troll there but on the other hand, many people will only search out a forum when they have a problem, hence its quite reasonable for peoples first post to be complaining about their products.
I personally also think its been handled badly by Korg although I do understand how businesses work and how admitting a fault without having a solution first etc can be very damaging. Many people who spend £3000+ on a musical instrument, expect it to work out of the box, and when they have problems and their music store or their korg service centre constantly tells them they are waiting on further info from Korg, well if I was one of those, I too would be fuming.
If I then went on to a forum, found many others with the same problems, then got belittled by others in the thread having no problems at all, that would do nothing to help my mood.
As has been pointed out many times, this isn't an official Korg forum, although their staff do give up their spare time to help when they can, and that's much appreciated. But this is the only place Korg have acknowledged the problem, I cant find any mention of it in the Kronos support sections or faqs on either the US or UK Korg sites.
So again from the end user with a problem, their service centres are waiting to hear from Korg, they see loads of others with the same problems (regardless of numbers, its obvious its enough to realise something is wrong with enough Kronos's for it to be a real problem), yet their stores and service centres cant get any response from Korg, and the only place they have made a comment is here, an unofficial forum, and when people then obviously ask for more info, they get reminded that this isn't an official place.
In other words, a lot of Kronos owners with faulty beds, feel they're in a no win situation and when they do try to put their points across, they get accused of trolling or kronos bashing.
I was on a Piano forum the other day and came across a thread warning people off buying the Kronos due to people suffering problems with the note cutoff (complete with youtube vids)
When someone like PianoManChuck (only using him as an example as he obviously isn't a troll) has had 3 all with problems and implies he's reluctant to risk getting a 4th at the moment, I think that speaks volumes to someone thinking of parting with their money.
That is not me Kronos bashing, it is me using common sense.
There is a further issue with this as I see it. Originally I was hoping that with in a year of the Kronos being released, they would start coming on the second hand market. There's no way on this planet I would ever consider buying a second hand 73/88 due to the keybed problem, unless Korg officially acknowledge that they will fix it even if its not the original owner. That could seriously effect the 2nd hand Kronos value.
The above is me being 100% honest as how I see things from someone who wants to buy (and is saving hard ) a Kronos, ,I am one of those the title of this thread is aimed at, but I have to weigh in everything in my decision of whether I'd part with my cash or not.
There's also been a few people saying their machines have crashed during live performances, again something to be wary about depending on its use, and is also something I probably wouldn't have even given a 2nd glance to if it wasn't on top of the other issues. When there's a serious issue, it naturally makes people look more at other issues.
Of course I've just pointed out the negatives, I know as do the vast majority of complainers in the keybed thread that the Kronos is a superb machine in a class of its own.
But I couldn't honesty advise someone to buy one at the moment unless they're rich with multiple spare keyboards.
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michelkeijzers
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Still the most people are content with the build quality and features.
However, if you want better build quality and less issues, I suggest buying the more expensive Oasys.
However, if you want better build quality and less issues, I suggest buying the more expensive Oasys.
Developer of the free PCG file managing application for most Korg workstations: PCG Tools, see https://www.kronoshaven.com/pcgtools/
Giving this kind of advice (to buy or not to buy) is just a way to express the own unhappiness of facing a possible risk. Nobody should give such advice IMHO.
Someone who really wants this board, and can get it anywhere (which still isn't trivial here in Germany), will just check it in a store and take it home if it shows no issues.
Self-confident people will decide for themselves instead of following vain advice either way.
Someone who really wants this board, and can get it anywhere (which still isn't trivial here in Germany), will just check it in a store and take it home if it shows no issues.
Self-confident people will decide for themselves instead of following vain advice either way.
Last edited by jimknopf on Wed Nov 30, 2011 4:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Kronos 73 - Moog Voyager RME - Moog LP TE - Behringer Model D - Prophet 6 - Roland Jupiter Xm - Rhodes Stage 73 Mk I - Elektron Analog Rytm MkII - Roland TR-6s - Cubase 12 Pro + Groove Agent 5
I think everyone trying to buy a new Kronos, must be aware of the issue with the keybed. It's important to know this happens not just on Kronos, also on SV-1 and everything confirmed with several videos.
Everyone must know if they get issues with this, there's still no solution available.
Everyone must know that maybe there should be no problem with their Kronos and then you must analyze what are your options if you get problems, because maybe on your country you'll have hard times to get this solved. Hopefully you'll get a (really) working keybed or at least your playing dynamics will never expose the issue.
And it's important to note that, the keybed failing on at least 50+ boards, and having one of the most populars threads on the forum for Kronos (and no similar thread for any other product), is a big issue because, at last, one of the really most important and critical parts of any keyboard is... the keyboard... And failing to deliver a great keybed for the flagship product is something serious.
It's important to know this is an important issue with Korg which makes huge damage to a great product, because also, everyone must know Kronos gives you great potential and when this get solved, you have really an amazing and powerful product.
Everyone must know if they get issues with this, there's still no solution available.
Everyone must know that maybe there should be no problem with their Kronos and then you must analyze what are your options if you get problems, because maybe on your country you'll have hard times to get this solved. Hopefully you'll get a (really) working keybed or at least your playing dynamics will never expose the issue.
And it's important to note that, the keybed failing on at least 50+ boards, and having one of the most populars threads on the forum for Kronos (and no similar thread for any other product), is a big issue because, at last, one of the really most important and critical parts of any keyboard is... the keyboard... And failing to deliver a great keybed for the flagship product is something serious.
It's important to know this is an important issue with Korg which makes huge damage to a great product, because also, everyone must know Kronos gives you great potential and when this get solved, you have really an amazing and powerful product.
Current gear: 
Access Virus TI2 Whiteout Keyboard (111/150), Access Virus TI2 Polar DarkStar Special Edition, Gibson Custom Lite 2013, Roland MV-8800 
Access Virus TI2 Whiteout Keyboard (111/150), Access Virus TI2 Polar DarkStar Special Edition, Gibson Custom Lite 2013, Roland MV-8800 -
foxy
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- Location: Down the Pub, Surrey, England
I don't post often, being mindful of the adage "better to stay silent and be thought a fool than to speak and confirm it"......but....
Ojustaboo's post is a classic example of rational and logical thinking, clearly expressed in unambiguous English and devoid of the intrusion of rancour or ego.
It serves not only as a stark contrast to many of the posts over numerous threads but also as an example as to how civilised, intelligent people should conduct a debate.
I do hope this doesn't sound too pompous but I (and I'm sure many others) have been saddend by the bile and vitriol expressed in many Kronos threads recently.
Ojustaboo's position exactly relects my own and I agree with every point the he made.
I could add to Ojustaboo's comments but it would be simply an attempt to "gild the lily"
After 30 years I'm now retired from "competetive keyboarding" however the years of gigging taught one paramount lesson, reliability.
To summarize, that was the best post yet!
Ojustaboo's post is a classic example of rational and logical thinking, clearly expressed in unambiguous English and devoid of the intrusion of rancour or ego.
It serves not only as a stark contrast to many of the posts over numerous threads but also as an example as to how civilised, intelligent people should conduct a debate.
I do hope this doesn't sound too pompous but I (and I'm sure many others) have been saddend by the bile and vitriol expressed in many Kronos threads recently.
Ojustaboo's position exactly relects my own and I agree with every point the he made.
I could add to Ojustaboo's comments but it would be simply an attempt to "gild the lily"
After 30 years I'm now retired from "competetive keyboarding" however the years of gigging taught one paramount lesson, reliability.
To summarize, that was the best post yet!
Krog will eventually take care of everyone that has problems with their unit down the road.
That being said, I dont' see why anyone should refrain purchasing this great synth on the basis that they "may" run into problems, because it can be fixed.
For me it's like saying: I don't want this great Ferrari because the stock tires have problems..
That being said, I dont' see why anyone should refrain purchasing this great synth on the basis that they "may" run into problems, because it can be fixed.
For me it's like saying: I don't want this great Ferrari because the stock tires have problems..