External SSD Backup for Kronos

Rskeys · Post by **Rskeys** » Fri Dec 09, 2011 4:45 pm

Hello, after reading some posts and having myself experienced booting dificulties in the kronos, already repaired. I've been thinking about a way to backup the entire Kronos SSD content. I will be doing lots of gigs with the kronos and before i buy a second unit i want to get some kind of ensurance (ssd wise if you know what i mean), i'm counting on the expertise of this forum members to help me devise this plan. My doubts are:

What is the model of the SSD that comes , i think it's wise to have an exact same model backup.
What would be the best cloning process, this is a linux OS, should the cloning be made in a linux enviroment?
Can i have the Ssd in an external box so that if any faliure happens i can plug in usb por and run it from there.
Can the kronos be run from an external ssd?

I will very much apreciate all help i can get in this thread.

Thank you,

Ricardo Silva

jimknopf · Post by **jimknopf** » Fri Dec 09, 2011 6:13 pm

Ricardo, you have the basic OS on DVDs.
You have OS updates on a USB stick.
You can easily have all your user information on PC/Mac media (hard drives, usb drives, usb sticks).

So why do you want an additional SSD drive?
I'm not even sure if you could just replace the actual one, or if there is some kind of Korg data protection involved.

Rskeys · Post by **Rskeys** » Fri Dec 09, 2011 6:35 pm

jimknopf wrote:Ricardo, you have the basic OS on DVDs.
You have OS updates on a USB stick.
You can easily have all your user information on PC/Mac media (hard drives, usb drives, usb sticks).

So why do you want an additional SSD drive?
I'm not even sure if you could just replace the actual one, or if there is some kind of Korg data protection involved.

That much i figured out

...
What i mean is if i am at a gig and my kronos fails to boot if i had a clone ssd, i would plug it to the usb and simply run the machine without any factory install. I would later repair the internal one. Think off it as a backup kronos if you will.

When you buy a cd or dvd you are allowed to make a copy for backup reason, i dont know if the same aplies to korg data ofcourse.

Thanks.

jimknopf · Post by **jimknopf** » Fri Dec 09, 2011 7:10 pm

Ok, but if you want to use a usb connection in live situations, after booting, the whole streaming of big libraries would hardly work as fast as with the internal bus.
And doesn't the sytem have to be activated or run through some kind of authentification? I doubt that this will work for more than one device, but I'm not sure.

The idea of a live backup system is really nice, but I have doubts if it will work.

Shakil · Post by **Shakil** » Fri Dec 09, 2011 7:30 pm

In theory it should work. May be getting a SATA controller slot extension cable sticking out of KRONOS. You could have multiple clones of the SSDs in external enclosures. When one fails, connected a different one.

BUT, it will definitely void the warranty.... so one hand you will get this backup, on the other hand you will not get free repairs, when you will have to use the backup.

MartinHines · Post by **MartinHines** » Fri Dec 09, 2011 8:08 pm

Rskeys wrote: What i mean is if i am at a gig and my kronos fails to boot if i had a clone ssd, i would plug it to the usb and simply run the machine without any factory install. I would later repair the internal one. Think off it as a backup kronos if you will.

This procedure would assume the OS has been designed to be able to boot from an alternate drive. I doubt the Kronos OS can load itself if the hard drive is not directly connected to the motherboard.

I personally don't see SSD failure any more likely than a motherboard or other failure. I think the only real backup you have for ANY keyboard is to have a second keyboard available.

Rskeys · Post by **Rskeys** » Fri Dec 09, 2011 8:11 pm

MartinHines wrote:
Rskeys wrote: What i mean is if i am at a gig and my kronos fails to boot if i had a clone ssd, i would plug it to the usb and simply run the machine without any factory install. I would later repair the internal one. Think off it as a backup kronos if you will.
This procedure would assume the OS has been designed to be able to boot from an alternate drive. I doubt the Kronos OS can load itself if the hard drive is not directly connected to the motherboard.

I personally don't see SSD failure any more likely than a motherboard or other failure. I think the only real backup you have for ANY keyboard is to have a second keyboard available.

Well, i have seen a few post's here about boot faliure and i myself experienced that. And even after unplugin everything and waiting it wouldn't boot. If this happens in stage... Has i posted i intend to buy a second unit, but not right now.

jimknopf · Post by **jimknopf** » Fri Dec 09, 2011 8:26 pm

I would contact Korg directly and ask if they might allow any kind of fast backup solution of the kind you have in mind in the future.

I never had a bootup failure, but if I had, that would make me nervous for gigging as well. As far as I heard, nobody had a spoiled gig for that reason so far. I hope it stays like that.

shap · Post by **shap** » Sun Dec 11, 2011 8:39 am

Hesitate to chime in on this, but a block-level backup of the SSD seems in order. The real question after that would be whether the core system boots directly from the boot flash. I don't know if that's the case or not.

Rskeys · Post by **Rskeys** » Mon Dec 12, 2011 4:40 pm

jimknopf wrote:I would contact Korg directly and ask if they might allow any kind of fast backup solution of the kind you have in mind in the future.

I never had a bootup failure, but if I had, that would make me nervous for gigging as well. As far as I heard, nobody had a spoiled gig for that reason so far. I hope it stays like that.

I had faliure to boot and no usb device was recoginezed to reinstall OS. It whent to the repair center and it cameback working flawlessly.
But since i currently dont have a backup unit with kronos features (witch only a kronos has

... ) i whant to concieve some kind of backup for the Ssd.
And for those that say that it is as likely to happen to any device on the kronos i remind that boot faliure is one of the most reported problems besides the Keybed. That being said it couldn't hurt to have a backup drive if you are on the road.
By the way i'm really enjoying the kronos, possibly the best sounding workstation i have ever played.

jimknopf · Post by **jimknopf** » Mon Dec 12, 2011 5:00 pm

Yes, we had several reports now, and that makes your point certainly understandable.

Perhaps it would also be good, if the Kronos OS could have something like a minor bios, not relying on the SSD for startup, allowing areliable startup screen, to get the SSD formatted and going again after reinstall in a worst case scenario. But that's probably no recommended way for gigging situations.

The Kronos is such a great synth, that I'm really fevering with the Krog team to see all possible sources of trouble ironed out. I never had such an impressive synth, and I see no other which I would regard as comparably useful. This board really does the job of several others in a very smart way.

michelkeijzers · Post by **michelkeijzers** » Mon Dec 12, 2011 5:19 pm

jimknopf wrote:Yes, we had several reports now, and that makes your point certainly understandable.

Perhaps it would also be good, if the Kronos OS could have something like a minor bios, not relying on the SSD for startup, allowing areliable startup screen, to get the SSD formatted and going again after reinstall in a worst case scenario. But that's probably no recommended way for gigging situations.

I completely agree, however, it could be on USB stick (booting from USB should be supported). And it would be even better if you put the complete sample / recovery part on a (16 GB?) USB stick ... I guess everybody would spend $20 or so for such a recovery option.

Rskeys · Post by **Rskeys** » Mon Dec 12, 2011 5:57 pm

michelkeijzers wrote:
jimknopf wrote:Yes, we had several reports now, and that makes your point certainly understandable.

Perhaps it would also be good, if the Kronos OS could have something like a minor bios, not relying on the SSD for startup, allowing areliable startup screen, to get the SSD formatted and going again after reinstall in a worst case scenario. But that's probably no recommended way for gigging situations.
I completely agree, however, it could be on USB stick (booting from USB should be supported). And it would be even better if you put the complete sample / recovery part on a (16 GB?) USB stick ... I guess everybody would spend $20 or so for such a recovery option.

I may be wrong becouse i didn't try it but if you put all data from dvd's on a 16Gb pen and presuming the kronos recognizes it, it should boot from there and allow for factory install, i mean theres is a reason no usb should be conected to the Kronos when you turn it on, it reminded me when i forgot a diskette in my floppy drive, if it wasn't o boot disk the pc wouldnt run... Maybe the same aplies to usb sticks. when you turn the power on in the kronos it scan's for usb devices if he sees the pen and the pen doesnt have an OS boot than the kronos hangs... I may be wrong here but it seems logical.

jamsire · Post by **jamsire** » Mon Dec 12, 2011 6:15 pm

Rskeys wrote:
I had faliure to boot and no usb device was recoginezed to reinstall OS. It whent to the repair center and it cameback working flawlessly.

And how long did it take to get the Kronos back in your hands??

Rskeys · Post by **Rskeys** » Mon Dec 12, 2011 6:25 pm

jamsire wrote:
Rskeys wrote:
I had faliure to boot and no usb device was recoginezed to reinstall OS. It whent to the repair center and it cameback working flawlessly.
And how long did it take to get the Kronos back in your hands??

Honestly about a month and half. But i understand that with some new units it takes more time for a repair center to figure out issues and ask korg for instruccions on how to deal with them. This was the explanation i got from my repair center and i certanly understand it... Although i think korg should give some kind of set of instruccions or formation to repair center's the minute a new unit comes out. I'm not naive no the point that i dont know this things have cost's ofcourse, but in the long run if problems arise and the repair center is quick about them the client is happy and remains a brand costumer witch business wise seems to be an advantage for any company. Anyways i'm very satisfyed with the unit, and i will be even more as soon as Korg get an editor out and also if a backup for Ssd procedure is possible.