Tips for using Kronos with a DAW

SeedyLee · Post by **SeedyLee** » Sat Dec 31, 2011 4:47 am

Although I had originally planned to wait for the fabled "Editor" before I learned how to effectively use the Kronos with a DAW, I finally bit the bullet and decided to spend some time over the holidays finding my way around integrating the two.

My DAW of choice is Studio One, which has some quirks and limitations with respect to external instruments that need to be worked around. Nonetheless, I think many of the points here are just as relevant. I'm sure these tips will be old-news to many of you, but hopefully it will be beneficial to some.

Global Parameters
In Global, change the following parameters:

Change Global -> MIDI -> Param Edit from "SysEx Param Change" to "CC Control". This will allow transmission and reception of Continuous Controllers for parameters such as Volume and Pan, where the Kronos supports both CCs and Sysex. Continuous Controllers are much easier to edit, view and automate in most DAWs than SysEx.

Set the KARMA CC Mappings to the Korg-recommended default. This can be done by accessing Global -> Controllers/Scales and selecting Reset Controller MIDI Assign from the page menu. In the dialog box, select CC Default. This will allow recording and automation of KARMA Real-Time Controls from within your DAW without requiring SysEx.

Turn off Local Control
Most DAWs will echo back MIDI by default, resulting in duplicated notes. Whilst this is a matter of preference as to whether this feature is used, either MIDI Echo needs to be turned off in the DAW, or Local Control turned off on the Kronos. My preference is to turn Local Controll off in the Kronos, as I find it makes it easier to use the Kronos as master keyboard for other devices, as well as aiding with the recording and routing of KARMA generated notes to other instruments.

Of course, Local Control needs to be turned on when playing the Kronos without a computer. A good tip here is to use Continuous Controller 122 to turn local control off from within your sequencer. This works for almost all KORG gear, and means you can leave Local Controll turned on by default, and have the sequencer automatically turn it off when the sequence starts playing. I've found this makes life much easier than turning off Local Control manually on every device.

The Kronos LOVES SysEx
Older Korg synths primarily used SysEx purely for bulk dumps - transmitting and receiving entire programs, banks etc. The Kropnos tramsits and receives Sysex for virtually every parameter, button and option in the device. This allows changes to progames/combis etc to be captured and recorded by the internal sequencer, as well as your DAW.

This makes it easy to automate many tasks, even without the editor software. For example, changing from Program mode to Sequencer mode halfway through a song, or compltely changing the effects stack. All that needs to be done is making sure Sysex is enabled in the the global MIDI settings, and ensure your DAW is set up to record Sysex.

What's cool about this is it becomes possible to configure programs and combis without having to store them in the Kronos' memory.

On the downside, without the Kronos Editor, the Sysex will be difficult to view and edit in your DAW (which is why CCs are preferable where available). Some DAWs, such as Studio One and Ableton Live, don't support recording of Sysex at all.

This wasn't an option on older devices, such as the Triton, so it allows a whole new world of automation possibilities to be explored.

Incidentally, the Kronos considers changes to organ draw bars to be a chnage to the Program, not a real-time parameter change. As such, these changes are transmitted as SysEx rather than CCs. Whilst this is very consistent with the overall design of the Kronos, it's unfortunately a little irritating for DAWs that don't support recording Sysex. I can absoutely see why it is designed this way though: it was not a stupid decision on Korg's part!

Continuous Controllers
Fortunately, the Continuous Controllers on the Kronos are very logical and allow access to most of the real-time parameters one would need. In this sense, the Kronos can be maniuplated from a DAW in much the same way as older devices, such as the KRONOS. A full listing of CCs sent and received by the Kronos is in the appendix of the parameter guide. I found it very worthwhile renaming the CCs in my DAW for the Kronos so I could easily see what CC corresponded to what function in the Kronos.

Combi vs Sequencer
It is traditional to use Sequencer mode on Korg workstations when working with a DAW or external sequcner, as this was the only mode that allowed access to all 16 channels. In prior devices, Combis only allowed 8 channels. However, the Kronos allows all 16 channels to be used in a combi, which opens up some new possibilities.

For me, ine of the biggest blockers to productively using Korg devices with a DAW in the past has been "total recall": recalling all the settings used on say, the Triton, for use with a particular song in my DAW - especially for DAWs that don't support Sysex. Using the sequencer mode in the past has meant that a Song has needed to be loaded from memory card or disk to use with a particular song in my DAW, which has meant an extra set of files to manage and keep in sync.

On the other hand, Combis can be stored in memory and are available at boot, and can be selected with simple Program Change messages. This means I can store the configuration I need for a song as a combi, and select the right combi from my DAW using a simple Program Change on the Global Midi Channel. Programs in a combi can still be changed from the DAW by sending Program Changes on non-global MIDI channels.

If I need to change the effects stack halfway through a song, I can simply have a second combi with the new stack, and change to it using a Program Change message. This is not possible in sequencer mode.

I've found that having a bank dedicated to songs that I've sequenced in my DAW, each with a unique program number, works really well so far. I've also found that not having all the options related to multi-recording etc cluttering up the screen makes the work flow much smoother.

I've setup a "Base Combi" that I use for combis that will be used with an external DAW that I can then modify as I need. This base-combi has all the default settings for audio routings, control assignments and jeyboard zones that I commonly use when sequencing with a DAW.

Again, I suspect some of this is obvious to most, but perhaps it will be helpful for those just starting out. Having played around with DAW integration a little more in the absence of the editor, I feel significantly more confident using the Kronos without the plugin editor than I previously did. That being said, the plugin editor will go even further to getting the most out of the Kronos, particularly in solving the "Total Recall" problem.

michelkeijzers · Post by **michelkeijzers** » Sat Dec 31, 2011 10:54 am

Thanks for all this info; I'm not into sequencing right now, but when I will I will check out this great article. THanks for sharing.

ScoobyDoo555 · Post by **ScoobyDoo555** » Sat Dec 31, 2011 12:47 pm

FWIW, I do the exact same thing.

Combi set up FTW.

Dan

jick · Post by **jick** » Sat Dec 31, 2011 2:51 pm

Great info, thanks!! I haven't really looked into this yet, but now it makes sense the sliders didn't send MIDI cc to my MBP with Mainstage. I guess the Kronos is still set up for Sysex

Dalenorth · Post by **Dalenorth** » Sat Dec 31, 2011 11:25 pm

Nice tips! Thank you!
I am still not clear on how to effectively record karma output to my daw, but I'm getting there. I did it the other day btw accident.

Lou · Post by **Lou** » Sun Jan 01, 2012 12:17 am

SeedyLee,

Thanks for posting, good info here I saved it. Everything you say here works beautifully in Logic, in Live it's a whole other story.

One thing to note here that may confuse some, is that if you want to record Karma's note output you must have Local Control on.
Also, it has to be through the Internal Sequencer with "Both" selected and not Internal. You don't have to record into the I.S., just record thru it to your DAW.

Just wanted to mention this for those that are trying to get Karma's midi notation while following your post will not work.
If I misunderstood you, please correct me. Thanks!

paterrob · Post by **paterrob** » Sun Jan 01, 2012 8:07 pm

Lou wrote:SeedyLee,

Thanks for posting, good info here I saved it. Everything you say here works beautifully in Logic, in Live it's a whole other story.

One thing to note here that may confuse some, is that if you want to record Karma's note output you must have Local Control on.
Also, it has to be through the Internal Sequencer with "Both" selected and not Internal. You don't have to record into the I.S., just record thru it to your DAW.

Just wanted to mention this for those that are trying to get Karma's midi notation while following your post will not work.
If I misunderstood you, please correct me. Thanks!

Thanks SeedyLee,
I am using Cubase 6 and for the life of me I can't get the two to interact. I've done what you say as well as Lou mentioned.
By any chance could it be a problem of me using a cheap USB to MIDI converter? Erindol UB-1.
I want to use the seq portion of the kronos as the 16 channels are laid out nicely.
I'm at my wits end. All I want to be able to do is construct a basic track and then from there learn the intricicies of the 2 programs.
Any help from anyone is appreciated. I've been going at this for weeks with no results.
Thanks,
Robert

Dalenorth · Post by **Dalenorth** » Mon Jan 02, 2012 1:16 am

I, too have no idea what I am doing wrong with logic.

popmann · Post by **popmann** » Mon Jan 02, 2012 1:26 am

What are you having trouble with? Put it in sequencer or combi mode an it's a 16 ch multi timbal synth like any other.

Do you not already have a midi interface? While you should be able to use the USB...you're adding another layer of configuration without any reason.

Also, if you're going to use the Kronos sequencer, what are you trying to get to work with cubase?

popmann · Post by **popmann** » Mon Jan 02, 2012 1:27 am

Re-read...just trying to output Karma? Looks like that's covered above, but what in karma do you want to record to cubase/logic?

dhjdhj · Post by **dhjdhj** » Mon Jan 02, 2012 9:34 am

Are there sysex messages for doing such things as switching from program mode to combo mode?

paterrob · Post by **paterrob** » Mon Jan 02, 2012 10:22 am

popmann wrote:Re-read...just trying to output Karma? Looks like that's covered above, but what in karma do you want to record to cubase/logic?

Hi,
The Kronos is the only keyboard I am using currently.
I want to essentailly split the Kronos in two. One half as the keyboard controller for Cubase and the sound engine as an external device (using the seq mode). I don't plan on using the internal seq at all on the Kronos other than to set up my 16 tracks.
So far I can't get Cubase to recognize the keyboard or sound engine. I had the same problem trying a Studio One Trial version.
I have followed the directions avove with no success. Cubase is not recording any notation nor outputting anything.
Is there any possibility it could be a poor quality USB to MIDI converter I am using.
Right now I would be happy to play "Mary had a Little Lamb", record it into Cubase ans actually hear it played back. That would be a huge step as it is

Thanks,
Rob

paterrob · Post by **paterrob** » Mon Jan 02, 2012 10:29 am

popmann wrote:What are you having trouble with? Put it in sequencer or combi mode an it's a 16 ch multi timbal synth like any other.

Do you not already have a midi interface? While you should be able to use the USB...you're adding another layer of configuration without any reason.

Also, if you're going to use the Kronos sequencer, what are you trying to get to work with cubase?

Popmann,
Yes I am using a MIDI interface (Roland UM-1) but I don't understand what you mean by that I'm trying to add another layer of configuratin without any reason?

Is there another option to doing my sequencing on Cubase 6, while using the Kronos without having a USB/MIDI converter?
Thanks again,
Rob

Lou · Post by **Lou** » Mon Jan 02, 2012 5:24 pm

paterrob,

Are you absolutely sure you have installed the Korg midi driver correctly and that it is being recognized? From over here it doesn't appear so..

Cubase has a pretty slick and tricky install/selection procedure for the driver.
When you set up a track in Cubase do you see the Korg driver? If not, you are way a head of yourself trying to record a track.

Have you checked the Cubase website for this? Also, possibly at Motifator.com you may find your answers.
There are many articles there that will describe the procedure. Sorry I can't help with this, I have no experience with Cubase.
Something doesn't sound right, after two DAWs and still no midi input makes me wonder..

paterrob · Post by **paterrob** » Mon Jan 02, 2012 6:45 pm

Lou wrote:paterrob,

Are you absolutely sure you have installed the Korg midi driver correctly and that it is being recognized? From over here it doesn't appear so..

Cubase has a pretty slick and tricky install/selection procedure for the driver.
When you set up a track in Cubase do you see the Korg driver? If not, you are way a head of yourself trying to record a track.

Have you checked the Cubase website for this? Also, possibly at Motifator.com you may find your answers.
There are many articles there that will describe the procedure. Sorry I can't help with this, I have no experience with Cubase.
Something doesn't sound right, after two DAWs and still no midi input makes me wonder..

Lou,
Miracles upon miracles, I detached my USB/MIDI interface and went directly to USB to USB. Low and behold I can see the Kronos acting as a Keyboard controller and recording. Unfortunately still no sound on the other end. When I went USB to USB I was finally asked to install the Kronos drivers, which I did. I had no idea a keyboard could be run from USB alone. The last time I used sequencing it was only MIDI, no such thing as USB then and I had to use a MAC or nothing (yes, I did own the soundtrack to Pretty in Pink

)
I have been checking the cubase site but will check Motifator.com as well.
Any other tips on the Kronos side? I really want to use the Seq area as I can save to disk and install when i want to work on a specific tune.
Thanks again,
Robert

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Tips for using Kronos with a DAW

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