Suggestion regarding all of the "complaint" thread

[ScoobyDoo555]

GENUINE.

OK, I think it's fair to say that there's a LOT of complaining in this forum about Kronos and Korg.

Whilst I don't agree with some of the complaints, I DO accept and respect the right to voice your grievances (no, really). I too have fallen victim to complaining and getting rather annoyed with fellow members for this.

As has been pointed out though, WE are the community, and should be sticking together - sadly when you come onto this site at the moment, there is quite an unpleasant tone, especially in the Kronos section. So much so, that personally, I reduced my time contributing here because I could guess what type of threads were going to crop up. Each time I came back, I was proven right.

For example, at the time of writing, 25% on the threads on the opening Kronos page are focussed on complaints, b1tching and whining. I haven't even looked past page 1!!

NOT a good impression to new-comers, nor to the outside world. I think we can definitely agree on this.

Now, instead of complaining about this, I would like to propose a sticky thread/folder for complaints - the regular users on this site ALL know that there have been QC issues and reliability problems - there's no need to keep on putting up NEW threads with the same content imho.

Would a complaints sub-froum sort this out? All the mods would have to do is just move threads into this new area......

This will then clean up the forum and (a) will provide a platform for those with grievances and (b) give a better impression to the outside world when they visit Korg Forums?

After all, as a community, we WANT Korg to support this place and be helpful: at present, I feel the impression given isn't one that Korg would even want to be involved with Yes Korg have a responsibility to sort everything out, and they will.....but publicly complaining about them isn't exactly going to speed the process up, is it?

Yes, we can argue that Korg have caused the problem in the first place, blah, blah, blah....... and if you want to tie yourselves in knots over this, be my guest.
However, let's try an focus on some positives -
1. the machine IS good.
2. the machine IS supported........by both Korg and (more importantly!) US - there are some GREAT threads about the machine.... sadly getting lost in the ether
3. ANY issues you have with your machine ARE covered under warranty, so will be fixed.

Rest assured though, if something isn't done, and there are documented examples of how forum users have caused the demise of a forum, the future isn't as rosy as you would hope imho.

Let's sort it out then

Dan

[robinkle]

Are you complaining? lol just kidding. I agree with you. The complaining take too much space in the forum. cheers!

[johnxyz]

I agree that its a shame to have so many complaints against a potentially excellent keyboard, but its surely a good way to make Korg sit up and take notice of their shortcomings.

You have to sympathise with folk who have just paid up to £3000 for a keyboard... especially in the times in which we live.

[runningman67]

I agree that its a shame to have so many complaints against a potentially excellent keyboard, but its surely a good way to make Korg sit up and take notice of their shortcomings.

You have to sympathise with folk who have just paid up to £3000 for a keyboard... especially in the times in which we live.

Thats a very measured and fair statement John. I think 'measured' is the key thing when posting on the forum. ( IMHO )

[QuiRobinez]

NOT a good impression to new-comers, nor to the outside world. I think we can definitely agree on this.

i agree, this isn't a good impression at all. However, if there is such a big amount of users complaining, it's good to know as a potential buyer what kind of problems you can expect. In my country the kronos is over 5100 dollar. I was an early adopter and when i was warned before i would have definitly waited untill the quality was improved before spending that amount of money on a workstation. So in my opinion there's nothing wrong with a lot of complaints on a forum, because that's the actual way owners feel about their very expensive workstation.

I have a lot of synths and to be honest i'm also very disappointed by the hardware quality and much more disappointed by the communication from korg itself. The upside of this all, is that when korg gets their act together and start communicating with their customers then these kind of complaining will probably be much less and we can all focus on the great possibilities this machine has to offer.

I'm trying to make positive contributions to let people hear what you can do with the kronos on my youtube channel. So i'm really not negative about the Kronos workstation. But as long as korg keep as silent about the problems as they are now, then the complaining of a lot of users will go on.

[jimknopf]

I agree that its a shame to have so many complaints against a potentially excellent keyboard, but its surely a good way to make Korg sit up and take notice of their shortcomings.

You have to sympathise with folk who have just paid up to £3000 for a keyboard... especially in the times in which we live.

The upside of this all, is that when korg gets their act together and start communicating with their customers then these kind of complaining will probably be much less and we can all focus on the great possibilities this machine has to offer.

I'm trying to make positive contributions to let people hear what you can do with the kronos on my youtube channel. So i'm really not negative about the Kronos workstation. But as long as korg keep as silent about the problems as they are now, then the complaining of a lot of users will go on.

+1 to both

I think the only thing that should be opposed in an open exchange forum, is obvious slandering and malevolent talk against all kown facts. Real problems should never be supressed or pushed out of sight artificially.

I agree that concrete topics, like the keybed issue, should be kept in one sticky thread instead of multiple ones. But it would be a crude form of censorship to put all critical feedback, despite adressing very different issues, into one box IMO. Public opinion cosmetics should play no role whatsoever in forums, and free speech, even if it isn't always pleasant, is of much higher value than any Kim Yong Il kind of "clean" world.

After all, we're not here to live in a Barbie world, with Ken's idiotic constant smile all over the place. It rather is exactly the open minded way of company staff like Dan and Rich (just like similar attitudes from Yamaha staff people in the Motifator forum), which adds credibilty to a company in a gear forum.

What we can't, is doing Korg's job of solving issues in acceptable time, and of significantly better communication concerning these issues.
What we really can do, is keeping more focus on creative music making with the Kronos.

[Sparker]

I'd agree with Dan (Scooby).

While I certainly sympathise with those who are having QC problems I don't come to the forum to read repeated complaints. What I want to know about are problems people are having AND the solutions, or at the least suggestions for fixes; and useful tips for increasing workflow or making life easier.

Whenever I've had inherent functionality problems or even wear and tear issues I've contacted the technical or customer service support departments of the manufacturers and have always got help and answers (yes, even with the nortorious Behringer service centres) and in those cases where something has gone wrong with the equipment then the service departments have always been able to service and repair my equipment.
So when I read that someone has had their Kronos sitting unused for six months because it's not working to their satisfaction and hasn't sent it in to get it sorted out then my sympathies fall off somewhat.

Regarding Korg's lack of response on this forum I'd suggest that its worth remembering that Korg are a Japanese company and there may well be some cultural differences in how they publically deal with complaints. I also note that this forum is hosted by Korg USA and I think it's highly likely that Korg follow what's being said on here.

The information I'd like to know is how many Kronos's have been sold compared to how many people have had QC problems, (for the different models). That way I'll have a perspective on the degree of experienced problems.

So yes, have a thread for collective complaints; and normal threads for experienced problems AND solutions/sugestions for fixes.

[MRedZac]

I agree that its a shame to have so many complaints against a potentially excellent keyboard, but its surely a good way to make Korg sit up and take notice of their shortcomings.

You have to sympathise with folk who have just paid up to £3000 for a keyboard... especially in the times in which we live.

The upside of this all, is that when korg gets their act together and start communicating with their customers then these kind of complaining will probably be much less and we can all focus on the great possibilities this machine has to offer.

I'm trying to make positive contributions to let people hear what you can do with the kronos on my youtube channel. So i'm really not negative about the Kronos workstation. But as long as korg keep as silent about the problems as they are now, then the complaining of a lot of users will go on.

+1 to both

I think the only thing that should be opposed in an open exchange forum, is obvious slandering and malevolent talk against all kown facts. Real problems should never be supressed or pushed out of sight artificially.

I agree that concrete topics, like the keybed issue, should be kept in one sticky thread instead of multiple ones. But it would be a crude form of censorship to put all critical feedback, despite adressing very different issues, into one box IMO. Public opinion cosmetics should play no role whatsoever in forums, and free speech, even if it isn't always pleasant, is of much higher value than any Kim Yong Il kind of "clean" world.

After all, we're not here to live in a Barbie world, with Ken's idiotic constant smile all over the place. It rather is exactly the open minded way of company staff like Dan and Rich (just like similar attitudes from Yamaha staff people in the Motifator forum), which adds credibilty to a company in a gear forum.

What we can't, is doing Korg's job of solving issues in acceptable time, and of significantly better communication concerning these issues.
What we really can do, is keeping more focus on creative music making with the Kronos.

+1

[Jan1]

I think the only thing that should be opposed in an open exchange forum, is obvious slandering and malevolent talk against all kown facts. Real problems should never be supressed or pushed out of sight artificially.

Sweeping real problems under the carpet in a dimly lit section of the forum just to keep up appearances is the worst Korg could do.
IF there's going to be a separate section for problems with the KRONOS, you get a situation where the KRONOS section distinguishes itself from the others by having a separate 'technical issues section'.
That does not really boost the image of the KRONOS either...

Aside from trolls who love to destroy a company's reputation there are users with genuine issues and frustrations, and it is good to have this in the open and see Korg address these issues. This creates confidence in Korg as a company that they stand by their products and fix any issues.

The problems like KORG experiences right now could happen to any company, and it's good to see KORG making sure that these problems are addressed and solved.

[michelkeijzers]

I also agree, that all these negative threads might let users think the Kronos is not a great instrument. Most of the users are very happy (as I am) and it would not be good if sales would suffer because of negative posts.

Of course Korg could give a statement soon about the keybed problem but once that is solved I hope they can spend their time making new developments again and korgforum readers can start making music and spend time about topics that would benefit everybody.

[ScoobyDoo555]

Agreed.

Probably poor choice of wording tbh. Maybe make the KEY issues sticky threads that people can add to (although in my defence, I did elude to this option as well!)

Still identifies the issues, but just tidies up the forum of all this negativity.

Mods? Sharp? Any thoughts on this?

The aim ISN'T to pidgeon-hole all of the complaints into a dark corner - more so to organise it more that if people/visitors want to look at the faults and issues experienced, they can in a "sticky" thread, for example.
This also clears the route for those wishing to look at other aspects of Kronos......

OR

well, it's all well and good stating that the suggestions for sorting this are wrong, but what about coming up with solutions?

Anybody can slag something off but what about the solution?

We're a community - ie diverse requirements and needs: in a round-about way, I'm asking that we all be catered for.

Dan

[jimknopf]

You can't accentuate the positive by brushing the problems under the carpet.

You can only accetuate the positive by accentuating the positive.
We certainly could do more of that.

Moderators do NOT have the task to make this forum look artificially bright.
I see no reason for them to chime in on this subject in any way.

I agree that common issues (not: all critical issues together) could have stickies. On the other hand, stickies are the first thing you look at on top. I'm not sure if that serves your intention. Perhaps it is good just as it is: to have the most serious hardware issue as sticky as long as it isn't solved, and to discuss the rest in normal threads.

[X-Trade]

Worth noting that this forum is not an official technical support channel.

And also that despite that, people are more likely to arrive here when they do have problems, so we have always naturally observed a bit of a bias towards complaints and issues. It's just the way it works. And it seems there are always more people about to complain than there are to make constructive discussion

But we are not here to sweep people's complaints, issues, and gripes under the carpet. Although sometimes things just need to be a little tidier and organised (like the keybed issues which were spilling out into many threads).

[ScoobyDoo555]

Correct Jim,

However, I feel that there are a disproportionate amount of negative posts aimed at Kronos...... therefore the Mods job of creating a balanced opinion IS a worthwhile exercise.

FWIW, on most other forums, it IS the Mods' job to "house-keep" the forums.

And of course their input should be sought in this thread.... why on earth not? They contribute just as much as anybody else imho.

And you ARE right though that more positive comments need to be made about the Kronos.

X-trade: spot on. All I'm suggesting is that the threads are tidied up.

[BasariStudios]

Well as someone yesterday said its either complaining or I AM VERY HAPPY
WITH M KRONOS and OH YES IT ARRIVED YESTERDAY Topics but nothing usefull.