Whats not at NAMM?

michelkeijzers · Post by **michelkeijzers** » Sun Jan 22, 2012 3:33 am

padking wrote:There's a video of the XW-P1 from Casio,
http://www.casiomusicgear.com/home/index.html

Look's good !

If they don't ship in 9 months or charge a
arm for it !

Padking

I wouldn't even consider buying it, because it only has a 6 timbre combi mode. I use regularly up to 10 ... and on a Korg I still have a HEX layer patch left!

jimknopf · Post by **jimknopf** » Sun Jan 22, 2012 3:35 am

Would that one work well as Kronos pad controller?

BEHRINGER: CMD DC-1
http://www.gearslutz.com/board/new-prod ... -soon.html

PianoManChuck · Post by **PianoManChuck** » Sun Jan 22, 2012 3:51 am

One of two things to be said about everything-under-one-roof workstations: either they're dead (except for Korg), - or - Roland, Yamaha, etc could not possibly have caught up in one year's time and need another year before they come up with something to seriously compete with the Kronos. With DAW's and mixers and all sorts of things on an iPad these days, why do people need workstations anymore? Looks like going back to individual components (especially in software) is the 'in' thing now. I'm happy to have the Kronos, and was a bit scared that something better might come along this year (reducing the value of my purchase) but that's not happened!
Looks like the most exciting release in keyboards at NAMM is Casio's entry into the analog synth market - they did a good job!

burningbusch · Post by **burningbusch** » Sun Jan 22, 2012 4:26 am

michelkeijzers wrote:
padking wrote:There's a video of the XW-P1 from Casio,
http://www.casiomusicgear.com/home/index.html

Look's good !

If they don't ship in 9 months or charge a
arm for it !

Padking
I wouldn't even consider buying it, because it only has a 6 timbre combi mode. I use regularly up to 10 ... and on a Korg I still have a HEX layer patch left!

Yes, HexLayer allows for a single sound to be made up of six components but you also have performance mode which allows for four tones to be layered/split, at least that's my understanding.

Street price is $499 (USD) and is expected in March/April.

Busch.

Jan1 · Post by **Jan1** » Sun Jan 22, 2012 10:55 am

The hardware workstation has been declared dead quite often over the past two decades or so, yet somehow they are still around.

In terms of a streamlined intuitive production environment, hardware workstations are still ahead of the software DAW, which needs tuning, setting up, and all other tedious computer related tasks.

With a software DAW you are confronted with a dominating presence of the computer, while the hardware workstation pushes the computer operated tasks to the background so that you get the feeling of dealing with an 'instrument using a invisible computer' instead of a 'computer running an instrument'.

This is why I still find a hardware workstation indispensible for writing songs for example.

So, no, I don't think the hardware workstation is dead at all.

But I DO think something has changed in the attitude of musicians.
They have become more critical, and they are not going to spend their hard-earned money on buying a new workstation each year when it is just a small variation on last year's workstation.

And software DAWs have played a significant role in this attitude in the sense that musicians start to compare the features of software vs hardware.
The result is that incremental improvements of hardware workstations such as a slightly larger ROM, a few more effects and a new casing are just not worth plunking down yet another $4000 anymore.

The KRONOS is a big step forward in the $3000-4000 market, and the other companies don't have a competitive answer ready yet.

jimknopf · Post by **jimknopf** » Sun Jan 22, 2012 11:16 am

For any musician playing live at rehearsals and gigs, a workstation like the Kronos is a dream come true. And once you get your Kronos sounds straight and refine them in band context, you can move them anywhere, and will also use them for recording to get that 1:1 experience of a really "grown", fitting sound on a high quality level. You know all these sounds well from context, and you know your instrument with it's one interface from context, using it's controllers on the fly all the time.

That's something quite different than stumbling around in the big world of available software and VSTis. I often caught myself wasting more time with checking the endless software possibilities (VSTis, sample libraries AND effects), than actually getting back to the song or project. Since I play the Kronos, I use software only to replace very few sounds after recording, but not to develop material any more. It's much more straightforward and leads to results faster to do it with the Kronos right away. That's why the VSTi plugin would come as a real enhancement here.

Home recording and big studios will use more and more software for sure, but for quite a while to come NO software will replace the practical side of the workstation experience described above.

Workstations are dead?
Not since the Kronos is available.

jick · Post by **jick** » Sun Jan 22, 2012 11:31 am

@jimknopf: spot on! Loved to read that, in contrast with all the issues reported. My K73 has a faulty keybed, but it's the best hardware synth I ever had.

michelkeijzers · Post by **michelkeijzers** » Sun Jan 22, 2012 12:24 pm

burningbusch wrote:
michelkeijzers wrote:
padking wrote:There's a video of the XW-P1 from Casio,
http://www.casiomusicgear.com/home/index.html

Look's good !

If they don't ship in 9 months or charge a
arm for it !

Padking
I wouldn't even consider buying it, because it only has a 6 timbre combi mode. I use regularly up to 10 ... and on a Korg I still have a HEX layer patch left!
Yes, HexLayer allows for a single sound to be made up of six components but you also have performance mode which allows for four tones to be layered/split, at least that's my understanding.

Street price is $499 (USD) and is expected in March/April.

Busch.

Ok I didn't know about the layering ... street price is not much ... but I still stick with the Kronos. I rather have the best in one synth

padking · Post by **padking** » Sun Jan 22, 2012 4:05 pm

The XW is surely not a replacement for
my Kronos or my Motif Xs, but for $499,
I will consider it as a solo synth and, depending
how it's sound, as a addition to my sound
pallet.

I have a AKAI synthstation 49 on order
since october ( yes another pain...) so
I could buy the XW instead.

Padking

jimknopf · Post by **jimknopf** » Sun Jan 22, 2012 4:23 pm

What I heard so far in the video, are lousy bad piano and organ sounds and rather plastic sounding synth sounds. So you all better hope for a positive surprise.

It's a nice little entry level keyboard for low budgets, and we can't expect too much of it at that price.

vEddY · Post by **vEddY** » Sun Jan 22, 2012 4:42 pm

padking wrote: I have a AKAI synthstation 49 on order
since october ( yes another pain...) so
I could buy the XW instead.
Padking

Is it possible that they're still not shipping that one? I've been considering it myself for my iPad...

JPROBERTLA · Post by **JPROBERTLA** » Sun Jan 22, 2012 4:50 pm

I did not post this thread to debate the relevance of high end workstations, but more to help alleviate any second thoughts Kronos owners had about not waiting (for NAMM 2012) to see what Yamaha, Roland and Kurzweil had coming down the pipe; because it appears that there is nothing.

That said, anyone who believes that the workstation is dead, probably has no need for one and therefore cannot see their relevance. I for one need just about everything a high end workstation offers; great sounds, a sequencer, hd recording, system integration, expandability, simplicity and portability. I would never consider carrying a computer, controllers and whatever else is required to have that kind of system for a live performance when I can have all of it in one keyboard platform that I can carry under one arm.

I seriously doubt that Yamaha, Roland and Kurzweil believe the workstation is dead; but I do believe they were caught completely off guard by the Kronos. I also believe that the obvious lack of comparable offerings one year later is due to what the Kronos turned out to be. I suspect that all 3 have or had something in development, but now have to rethink it in terms of how it will compare to the Kronos. Anything else will not cut it.

Yamaha, Roland and Kurzweil have used the same technology, tweaked and re-boxed for the past 10 years. The Oasys, from which the Kronos takes its lineage, is really the most recent workstation evolutionary step. If you have either, I believe that you will be working with the next generation workstation for another 18 to 24 months before anyone else.

Dniss · Post by **Dniss** » Sun Jan 22, 2012 4:59 pm

As long as people will play live, I don't see how workstations could be obsolete.

I don't know many musician who would rather play on a computer in a live situation.

Different strokes for different folks. That's all it is.

Cpilot · Post by **Cpilot** » Sun Jan 22, 2012 7:20 pm

I don't know about being caught off guard. The OASYS has been out for six years now, and was a pointer to the way things were going, so Yamaha, Roland and Kurzweil have had plenty of time to review their options and they have declined to do so. They have a lot of catching up to do. The Kronos is not just a workstation either. It's a performing keyboard as well so it's covering two major aspects in one keyboard apart from anything else.

Bryan

cowtothesky · Post by **cowtothesky** » Sun Jan 22, 2012 11:07 pm

I used to be a workstation fanatic, but I don't know why anyone would want to be limited by the internal ram of a workstation. Vi's and plugins are definitely the way to go. IMO

I just don't understand why Korg doesn't come up with a kickass 88-key Midi controller keyboard with big sliders, internal korg synthesis that acts like a plugin, and completely integrated to all popular DAWs. Something thin so that it sits on the desk without taking up room. I'm currently using the Korg M3 as a midi controller, but had to buy a slider and toggle controller to go with it (the sliders on the M3 are way too small). Also, it would be cool if they came up with a high quality interface built in, so that you could plug your guitar, vocals, etc. right into the Korg controller. That is my wish list.