About Kronos CX-3 modelling engine

[Synthoid]

I finally had a chance to play the Kronos yesterday... obviously quite scarce around here.

But anyway--I didn't have a lot of time to explore every feature in depth, but I do have a question. When I was paging through the various windows/tabs, I didn't see any envelope generator present in the CX-3 section. What happens if I want to modify the attack or release of an organ sound?

[michelkeijzers]

AFAIK that is not possible but why would you? There is also not such functionality on a real hammond organ.

Maybe you can output the sound of the CX3 as input for one of the other EXIs that has envelopes (AL1?).

[Synthoid]

AFAIK that is not possible but why would you? There is also not such functionality on a real hammond organ.

That is correct, however, I have created special organ sounds with both my Triton and M3 that have slower attacks and longer release times. It helps create a different mood and fits well with certain songs I play.

I don't have a Kronos yet... but was quite curious about this feature.

[phattbuzz]

You can create other organs in the HD1 Sampler and assign envelopes to them.

[Synthoid]

That basically defeats organ modeling with the Kronos then. Oh well... guess I have a lot to learn about tone wheel organs.

Bummer.

[popmann]

Or about physical modelling tech...

[jeebustrain]

conceivably, you could layer a CX-3 and an AL-1 sound together in a program and use the EG from the AL-1 to manipulate the CX-3.

I haven't done this specific thing, but I can't see why it wouldn't be possible

[ccmacdon]

I would think that you could easily "re-sample" the organ sound that you're looking for, including any dynamic drawbar changes, and then simply process it like any other sample.

That said, Synthoid I think you have a few things to learn about the Hammond organ, and the CX3 engine.... The CX3 engine simply mimics a real hammond organ which has no Attack/Decay/Sustain/Release... it's simply a note on and note off...! The drawbars and expression pedal are what is used to effectively vary the ADSR of the organ tone, AND the percussion of course!

[drchris]

You can create other organs in the HD1 Sampler and assign envelopes to them.

Based on the purposes that you mention, I don't really think you need the CX3 engine for the sound you're looking for. You're talking about taking a basic organ and making it non-organ (but organ based) with the envelopes. This can be done in HD1 and I'm guessing that some of the stock HD1 organ sounds would be a good start for that.

Now, if you're looking to get a pretty good (impressive to most) hammond sound, the cx3 engine is just the ticket. I'm not an organ player, but I'm finding myself going to this engine more and more and learning more of its nuances... Great engine.

Chris

[Synthoid]

Based on the purposes that you mention, I don't really think you need the CX3 engine for the sound you're looking for. You're talking about taking a basic organ and making it non-organ

I really was looking forward to experimenting with the CX-3 engine... whenever I can afford the Kronos. It's just unfortunate a simple AR envelope generator wasn't included within the model.

While envelope generators would not be "true to form" with the original Hammond organ, I don't think it would be difficult to incorporate one into the CX-3 software.

[michelkeijzers]

Based on the purposes that you mention, I don't really think you need the CX3 engine for the sound you're looking for. You're talking about taking a basic organ and making it non-organ

I really was looking forward to experimenting with the CX-3 engine... whenever I can afford the Kronos. It's just unfortunate a simple AR envelope generator wasn't included within the model.

While envelope generators would not be "true to form" with the original Hammond organ, I don't think it would be difficult to incorporate one into the CX-3 software.

That's true, but probably that also is the case for any of the other parameters.

[cello]

Can't help but ask - but did the original CX-3 have such an attack/release function?

Have looked at pictures of the Cx-3 and can't see such a thing.

But could be wrong - I hate organs so have no interest.

But, am curious - are you looking for the original sound, or an original sound you can make into something else?

[ccmacdon]

The CX3 engine is designed to emulate a Hammond tonewheel organ, period. Neither the original Hammond, or the original CX3, had a variable attack/release function. The CX3 engine is not designed to be a "synthesized" version of the Hammond Organ, it's intended to recreate it exactly. If you want to play with the hammond sound, and "synthesize" it, simply resample the CX3 engine into the HD1 sample engine and process it any way you want! That's the beauty of the Kronos.

To suggest that we add features to the CX3 engine that are not part of the original design of the Hammond Organ is entirely contrary to the design and purpose of the CX3 engine in the first place... AND it's entirely contrary to what most us organ players would want or expect from the CX3 engine. When I dial up a CX3 program I want it to behave like a real Hammond.

That's not to say that you can't resample the CX3 engine and take the Hammond sound somewhere else.. by all means go ahead and go crazy, but recognize that for most of us organ players, the beauty of the CX3 engine is it's faithful recreation of the Hammond rather than the ability to go somewhere else with it.

[BasariStudios]

That basically defeats organ modeling with the Kronos then. Oh well... guess I have a lot to learn about tone wheel organs.(

I dont think it defeats Organ Modeling but STANDS for it...Modeling is Modeling,
you can ONLY do what the REAL one does...now, as someone sugested you can
take an HD-1 Sample and modify it...same as you did on M3 or Triton.

[Zeroesque]

I finally had a chance to play the Kronos yesterday... obviously quite scarce around here.

But anyway--I didn't have a lot of time to explore every feature in depth, but I do have a question. When I was paging through the various windows/tabs, I didn't see any envelope generator present in the CX-3 section. What happens if I want to modify the attack or release of an organ sound?

An organist does this with the volume pedal. I've done something similar to what you describe in the past, though, for Pink Floyd's "One of These Days." At least it sounded right to me when I was a young teen.

At any rate, I agree with the others who say that this would not be a welcome change to a modeling engine. It would make it more complicated (more parameters) and less authentic. The sampling engine, however, is designed to do this, and the possibility of routing it through one of the VAs as previously mentioned could be cool, too.

You could use your same argument for adding a bunch of subtractive synthesis capabilities to the piano. How many people would want that? At the point of mangling the original instrument into something else, I don't believe you're looking for the finest piano experience any longer, so samples would seem to be best.

If you're not into samples for your organ sounds, I recommend using sine waves to represent the various drawbar lengths and running those through a ton of effects (amp/speaker modelers and such). I've always gotten better tonewheel-like sounds that way since the Trinity days.