Improving CX3 sound

[carmol]

Hello,
it is a fact that CX3 is the weak point
of kronos... other engines are great,

I totally disagree. I like the CX-3 a lot. I've been using the Hammond XM-1, but since I replaced it with the Kronos CX-3, my band actually hears hammond organs!

If you own a Nord Electro or another recent clone
you would not replace it with kronos..

I also disagree that other engines are great. I really dislike the sounds that STR-1 produces. None of the harps, guitars and clavs do it for me, they all sound very unrealistic.

STR-1 is probably the only engine that I'll never use.

STR-1 is not the best choice for realistic sounds,
it's more an experimental module.
For realistic string instruments, the engine is HD-1.

[SanderXpander]

If you own a Nord Electro or another recent clone
you would not replace it with kronos..

I have a Nord Stage classic rev C, admittedly not their very newest one, but I don't really like the organ much. The Leslie is excellent, but the organ itself somehow never mixes right. I also have to put it really loud (or rather, make all my piano patches way softer than I'd like) in order to achieve remotely "equal" levels.

[carmol]

If you own a Nord Electro or another recent clone
you would not replace it with kronos..

I have a Nord Stage classic rev C, admittedly not their very newest one, but I don't really like the organ much. The Leslie is excellent, but the organ itself somehow never mixes right. I also have to put it really loud (or rather, make all my piano patches way softer than I'd like) in order to achieve remotely "equal" levels.

I owned a nord stage ex,
I didnt like the hammond too, the emulation
of nord stage is generation g2, while
nord electro 3 is g4, the same of C1 (g3) slightly improved.
So as starting point of comparison
I consider the Nord Electro 3.

[ccmacdon]

Listen to me play ELP on my stock CX3 with no additional processing of any kind and tell me that the C3 emulation is weak. (the lower keyboard plays the lower CX3 sound):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIqQICno ... ature=plcp

In my Kronos I couldn't get the CX3 to sound right until I turned off its speaker simulation.

Kerry, first, nice job on Hoedown.. I used to perform this song in the 70's in a classic rock cover band, great organ/keyboard feature, that not many keyboard players can perform.. !! I've heard some pretty sloppy versions of this over the years, but yours is spot on.. well done..!

I will certainly check the "speaker simulation" to see how that is set on the organ programs that I am working on but I'm not convinced that this is going to solve all my issues. As I said in my other note, I am a former BX3 owner and I am fully aware of the strengths and limitations of the BX3.. (and I stand by my earlier comments). I do think that most players will be able to find a workable B3 sound using the CX3 emulation, but it's got a number of shorcomings when compared to current clone technology.

In this video, using your original BX3 you've captured the "essence" of that percussive ELP sound (but it is missing some of the "body" and tonal character of the original). However, to put this video up and say "tell me the CX3 emulation is weak" is a pretty bold statement/question when in this video you're simply using a stock 888800000 sound with percussion, and a lot of reverb.. Most clones can get this sound right.. Where clones (and the CX3 breaks down) is when you start moving drawbars, adding chorus/vibrato, and spinning the leslie up/down.. In this video, your sound is completely static.. I can get this sound no problem.. What I can't get is a great sounding Hammond B3/122 leslie with all the tones scaled correctly across the the keyboard with the right kind of growl/scream, nice woody sounding percussion, authentic Chorus/Vbrato, and an accurate sounding leslie sim.

That said I am a pretty fussy guy, and I'm not saying tht the CX3 emulation is too far off, what I am saying is that the factory programs suck, you need to tweak the programs to make them sound authentic, and there are some areas of the CX3 engine that need work.

Again, great performance Kerry, and in this instance the BX3 sounds great, but your video hasn't changed my opinion.

I will be checking out how my speaker simulation is set. Thanks for that tip.

[ccmacdon]

Hello,
it is a fact that CX3 is the weak point
of kronos... other engines are great,

I totally disagree. I like the CX-3 a lot. I've been using the Hammond XM-1, but since I replaced it with the Kronos CX-3, my band actually hears hammond organs!

I also disagree that other engines are great. I really dislike the sounds that STR-1 produces. None of the harps, guitars and clavs do it for me, they all sound very unrealistic.

STR-1 is probably the only engine that I'll never use.

If you're comparing the CX3 emulation to a 15 year old Hammond XM-1 module I'm not surprised that you like the CX3 emulation.. The CX3 emulation is miles ahead of the XM-1 module there is no doubt.. (I owned one and I'm quite familiar with it's capabilities).

The question at hand here is how to improve the CX3 engine, and while it's a reasonably good facsimile it has some shortcomings when compared to the current crop of Hammond clones.

[jeremykeys]

My problems is:

When using the tweaked organs in a combi/split, they loose gain/volume or whatever...although all volumes are at 127!
A 1:1 comparison between organ program and same organ in combi by ears shows a significant volume difference. What´s the reason for that?

Are you copying all the correct IFX's, TFX's and MFX's? That might be part of the problem.

[Lando]

Listen to me play ELP on my stock CX3 with no additional processing of any kind and tell me that the C3 emulation is weak. (the lower keyboard plays the lower CX3 sound):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIqQICno ... ature=plcp

In my Kronos I couldn't get the CX3 to sound right until I turned off its speaker simulation.

Awesome performance! Still agree with other posters that the percussion sounds off in some way but it's a good sound and way better than what I got from the Kronos when I tried it in the shop. Maybe the speaker siim is what made it sound wierd to me before but next week I'll finally get my Kronos and start tweaking.

That beeing said: I truly doubt it's up to my Nord Stage 2:s organ since I find both the leslie sim, percussion and amp sounds better than anything I've heard from Korg, but maybe we all can make some great startout presets and make the Kronos organ kick ass

[nitecrawler]

Do you mean the KBR - 3D? I haven't tried the KBR - 3D but I don't like any of the other Motion sound stuff that I have tried..!

opps! typo, yes the KBR-3D. What I prefer is that the rotor horn actually rotates and therefor moves the sound in the space of the venue in a physical way that a static recreation cannot. That being said, it is not an exact recreation of a Leslie. I would assume that its sound is very close to the other Motion Sound stuff you have tried, so the KBR-3D may not do it for you as well. I can't say, because I have not tried the others. All I can say is that it works for me in a live format.

[Dniss]

Listen to me play ELP on my stock CX3 with no additional processing of any kind and tell me that the C3 emulation is weak. (the lower keyboard plays the lower CX3 sound):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIqQICno ... ature=plcp

In my Kronos I couldn't get the CX3 to sound right until I turned off its speaker simulation.

Amazing!

Wasn't Emerson using a CX-3 (not B-3) in the 1st place? I'd sure like to hear the same performance on the Kornos!

[jeremykeys]

When Emerson recorder Hoedown he probably used his B-3 in the studio. I've read articles on the various ways his Leslie was miced. Mind you though, he also used a L100 and since I don't know that one iit is possible that he used that instead.

[X-Trade]

Emerson was also recently using the OASYS, I think?

[Jeremy Bender]

Emerson used an original Hammond C3 to record the original version of Hoedown on the Trilogy album

[ccmacdon]

Emerson used an original Hammond C3 to record the original version of Hoedown on the Trilogy album

Not to be confused with the CX3..

[TonyP66]

HOWEVER, I am using a Ventilator pedal, because it gives me both a GREAT leslie sim AND it solves the problem of the digital sounding Overdrive.. (the Ventilator has fantastic warm realistic overdrive)..

I really agree the Ventilator is an awesome device. I made a combi on which I send the organ sound to output 3 straight into my Ventilator. I have however the idea that it always sounds like it is very overdrived, even while taking down the volume of the output.

How did you hook it up?

[ccmacdon]

HOWEVER, I am using a Ventilator pedal, because it gives me both a GREAT leslie sim AND it solves the problem of the digital sounding Overdrive.. (the Ventilator has fantastic warm realistic overdrive)..

I really agree the Ventilator is an awesome device. I made a combi on which I send the organ sound to output 3 straight into my Ventilator. I have however the idea that it always sounds like it is very overdrived, even while taking down the volume of the output.

How did you hook it up?

Ton, I do the same thing, I send the dry organ signal to output 3 and straight into the ventilator.. I don't find my ventilator makes it sound overdriven at all... what it does do though is give it some nice tube warmth.

I do wish that the CX3 leslie sim and overdrive was a bit better so I could avoid using the ventilator. I'm going to keep tweaking it and see how good I can get it!