Improving CX3 sound

carmol · Post by **carmol** » Wed Mar 28, 2012 11:54 am

Hello,
it is a fact that CX3 is the weak point
of kronos... other engines are great,
the state of the art of pianos and synths,
HD-1 is a powerful sampling tool,
but what kronos really lacks it's a top Hammond emulation.
CX3 is good, but it's a cut below
other best clones.
Ok, kronos is not pretending to be
into top 10 b3 clones, but it has a lot of
tweaking parameters and features:
does somebody found a way to
significantly improve B3 patches?

Starless · Post by **Starless** » Wed Mar 28, 2012 12:15 pm

I love cx-3 imho it's not a weak point at all...but improving is a good idea... I know that cx-3 is a emulation of b3 and I would like to have also vox and continental emulation!

Starless · Post by **Starless** » Wed Mar 28, 2012 12:16 pm

sorry farfisa

carmol · Post by **carmol** » Wed Mar 28, 2012 12:25 pm

For vox and farfisa,
CX-3 is not suitable at all,
because its only a toneweel clone,
while those are electronic instruments.
To reproduce vox and farfisa,
the most suitable way is sampling them
or download some sf2 multisample
and import it in HD-1, I think,

BillW · Post by **BillW** » Wed Mar 28, 2012 12:28 pm

Personally, I don't think there's anything wrong with it. The CX-3 was, IMO, one of the best clonewheels on the market when it was introduced about 10 years ago and the Leslie sim still sounds really good. I had a CX-3 (the wooden thing) for a number of years and got some great sounds out of it. I haven't quite gotten the Kronos' CX-3 engine dialed in, but the tools are there.

michelkeijzers · Post by **michelkeijzers** » Wed Mar 28, 2012 12:34 pm

I also am very pleased with the CX3 ... I think every CX3 preset needs a bit of tweaking because sounds and playing style is very personal.

.Jens · Post by **.Jens** » Wed Mar 28, 2012 1:29 pm

In fact, I love the CX3 inside the Kronos. The only thing I would really appreciate to improve is the OD/distortion - the only real weak point. If that was the same quality as some of the built-in guitar amp / distortion effects it would be great.

This would still leave some room for improvement, but honestly I wonder why the CX3-OD seems to be still the same as 10 years ago, while similar effects are available in much better quality on the same machine.

michelkeijzers · Post by **michelkeijzers** » Wed Mar 28, 2012 1:45 pm

Jens: you can of course redirect a dry CX3 signal into a IFX/TFX/MFX using your favorite effect(s).

BillW · Post by **BillW** » Wed Mar 28, 2012 1:59 pm

.Jens wrote:In fact, I love the CX3 inside the Kronos. The only thing I would really appreciate to improve is the OD/distortion - the only real weak point. If that was the same quality as some of the built-in guitar amp / distortion effects it would be great.

This would still leave some room for improvement, but honestly I wonder why the CX3-OD seems to be still the same as 10 years ago, while similar effects are available in much better quality on the same machine.

Yes, that is a valid point. I have a ventilator that I use when I need more of an edge.

JPROBERTLA · Post by **JPROBERTLA** » Wed Mar 28, 2012 2:41 pm

The CX3 is as good as any clone wheel out there, but it does need tweaking. I find too much OD and distortion in the Korg presets; but this is easily corrected.

No clone wheel emulator will never be a B3. However this is easily forgotten after moving a B3 and a Leslie for even a short distance. In the context of a mix, it is very hard to hear the difference.

If you play so much organ that its necessary to have the real B3 sound, then use a B3.

.Jens · Post by **.Jens** » Wed Mar 28, 2012 3:55 pm

michelkeijzers wrote:Jens: you can of course redirect a dry CX3 signal into a IFX/TFX/MFX using your favorite effect(s).

I know, and I already do so. But it uses up unnecessary slots (because you want the OD before the leslie usually) and FX CPU, because the internal FX of the CX3 already consume the fixed resources for then unneeded FX.

The most important thing is, that it uses more time for building combis and so on (you always have to copy the FX), and you cannot use the predefined tone adjust controls etc.
Some can be re-mapped, some cannot. E.g. I cannot see how it would be possible to use the TA setting for the drawbars, chorus, vibrato etc. and at the same time control the FX settings for OD and Leslie with the buttons. I don't mind that much, because I use a foot controller for switching the leslie at least, but it would be nice to have the OD amount on one of the knobs in the tone adjust page instead of mapping it to some other controller or switching to RT/Karma to use the knobs left to the display.

I mean, if Korg has better OD effects, why don't they put it in the CX3 instead of sticking to the outdated OD of the original CX3? Routing each and every organ sound through a bunch of IFX is a workaround, but no elegant solution.

Anyway, I still have to tweak my setup, including of a Kronos, a 1979 CX3 (yes, past and present

), an Italian Leslie clone (upgraded with some original Leslie parts), and a ToneWorks G4 as a backup. But it would be nice to have some feasible onboard solution for smaller gigs.

BTW: is there any way to (mis-)use any option in the FX routing to globally (for a large number of progs and combis) switch between different routing options? Option 1: every organ is routed to an individual output to use an external leslie, Option 2: Use the internal FX (maybe at a constant IFX slot) instead?
The only option I can imagine at the moment is to set up all my programs and combis using organs as follows: route the organ(s) to the output, and at the same time route one of the analog inputs through the IFX chain containing the OD/Leslie. Then I could switch easily between the internal / external Leslie setup with a 10 inch patch cord connecting in and out. But that would use two of the very limited connections (one of the inputs is already occupied by the old wooden lady).
A better solution would be some FX that could change between two routings depending on some controller, e.g. SW1 / SW2.

@jprobertla: If you are addressing me, I'm not after the real B3 sound - coming from the old CX3 I am over-satisfied with the basic organ sound of the new CX3 engine. I am looking for "crunchy" and "warm" (not "shrill") distortion on the (rock) organ sounds. This is something which makes a difference even in a crowded mix. For anything like percussive jazz organs, I'm perfectly OK.

Olaf · Post by **Olaf** » Wed Mar 28, 2012 7:59 pm

Hello

I am new on this forum. This subject is very interesting. Is anybody interested to share some organ combi/program sounds

regards
Olaf

Zeroesque · Post by **Zeroesque** » Wed Mar 28, 2012 9:28 pm

JPROBERTLA wrote:No clone wheel emulator will never be a B3. However this is easily forgotten after moving a B3 and a Leslie for even a short distance. In the context of a mix, it is very hard to hear the difference.

Heck, even Joey D plays a clonewheel now.

Phabius · Post by **Phabius** » Wed Mar 28, 2012 10:24 pm

The only thing I would really appreciate to improve is the OD/distortion - the only real weak point.

+1

That's the only reason I'm still taking my Nord live, as even the pianos (both Ac and EPs) I'm playing from Kronos.

CaptLego · Post by **CaptLego** » Thu Mar 29, 2012 12:24 am

JPROBERTLA wrote:The CX3 is as good as any clone wheel out there, but it does need tweaking. I find too much OD and distortion in the Korg presets; but this is easily corrected.

I think that's what is bothering me about the presets, too. I'd like to get a cleaner sound. I have no doubt it's possible - I just haven't figured out how to do it.

I'm slowly working my way through the engines .. Have spent a bit of time on the pianos, EPs, MS20, poly6, and a bit of HD1 so far. I think some "quality time" with the CX3 is in order. I still have my Roland VK8, and got to where I could quickly dial in the sounds I want on that. I just haven't yet gotten to that point with CX3.