Why would Korg do it?

summers2 · Post by **summers2** » Wed Jul 18, 2012 4:58 pm

With all of the(real) hardware and software problems being discussed on Korg forums, why would Korg come out with a new Kronos and never mention the extremely serious problems that their Kronos customers are having with the original. It would seem that much of their effort would be addressed to properly building the first Kronos and assuring their customers that their concerns are important and are being addressed.

It seems incredible to me that a person would pay $4000.00 for a keyboard and be happy; after having to go into it to quiet a noisy fan, send it back for keybed issues, suffer low velocity issues, have it cut out at any time(after waiting over two minutes for it to boot up) have pieces of it fall out, have to put spacers in it to move it, etc.

After reading all the complaints,(some of it has to be true) why would anyone buy a Kronos? I am serious, I wonder why.

And for them to have the cheek to come out with the Kronos X without a word about current Kronos problems. ?????

Unless they corrected a lot of the problems and are not saying so for obvious reasons. If so, what about those who have the old Kronos.

I wonder why Korg did it.

michelkeijzers · Post by **michelkeijzers** » Wed Jul 18, 2012 5:09 pm

No problems here, however I have a 61 key Kronos so it helps with the keybed problems. Also not everybody with a 73/88 keybed has keybed problems (I'm not going to start that discussion again).

The noisy fan is debatable; I don't mind because my PC makes even more noise.

I also don't have velocity issues (I got till 124 without problems, and didn't want to hit the keys harder).

Why buy it: because I think it's the best hardware synth available.

BobTheDog · Post by **BobTheDog** » Wed Jul 18, 2012 5:13 pm

Well I have a noisy fan and problems with getting over 118 velocity but it is still a fantastic synth, I wouldn't want to loose it thats for sure

zzz · Post by **zzz** » Wed Jul 18, 2012 5:14 pm

I've got one of the first 88's in the UK, and it's amazing. Nothing's fallen off it yet. The only worry is that it's so deep, it'll take me years to fully grasp everything. Also, it sounds head and shoulders above the rest. No fan nise that I can hear.
On the other hand I have friends who have bought fancy cars with far worse problems - I always tell 'em to buy one for three grand, and go around the world a cuople of times with the rest.

X-Trade · Post by **X-Trade** » Wed Jul 18, 2012 5:18 pm

Perhaps they have fixed the problems progressively. It is true that not 100% of owners for any particular model experience a specific set of hardware problems.

So if the problems are not present in the latest production run of Kronos and those changes have been carried over into the Kronos X, then the re-branding of the Kronos is simply to acknowledge that these problems have overcome and renew confidence by providing a way for buyers to assure that they are buying a completely up-to-date and problem-free Kronos. Effectively distancing themselves from the problems.

As far as I am concerned, the Kronos X is purely a minor point revision to the hardware and does not deserve such a grandiose name as the X suffix.

For example, Korg silently upgraded the hardware of the M3 quite some time after the Xpanded came out, the Xpanded itself had no difference in hardware at all to the original M3 initially.
This is a bit like that, but instead of doing it quietly they have decided to announce it in a big way.

jimknopf · Post by **jimknopf** » Wed Jul 18, 2012 5:27 pm

The kronos just happens to be the most creative piece of keyboard gear I own.
Exchanging a fan has been a minimal problem compared to that.
Else not a single problem here: serial no. 72 (73key) , in use since a year.

Every user running into trouble and having to wait for fixes is one too much, and there have been definitely too many. But while Korg is working to iron out problems one by one (like the RH3 fix), I doubt that anyone will disregard the most powerful synth available on the way there altogether.

summers2, you probably don't have one yet, so it may be hard for you to guess what you are missing.

BasariStudios · Post by **BasariStudios** » Wed Jul 18, 2012 5:39 pm

jimknopf wrote:The kronos just happens to be the most creative piece of keyboard gear I own.
Exchanging a fan has been a minimal problem compared to that.
Else not a single problem here: serial no. 72 (73key) , in use since a year.

Every user running into trouble and having to wait for fixes is one too much, and there have been definitely too many. But while Korg is working to iron out problems one by one (like the RH3 fix), I doubt that anyone will disregard the most powerful synth available on the way there altogether.

summers2, you probably don't have one yet, so it may be hard for you to guess what you are missing.

You still make no sense at all...nobody and who cares about Inspirational
or whatever...a Ferari might go to 100mps in 1 second but if the leather
chairs inside are all messed up do you think people will ignore that and be
happy with the 100mps? I dont care how inspirational it is and how it Sounds
when its all clunky...get it? Lets stop justifying and defending Korg with
senseless and funny things, people paid 3000$ and more for this machine.

KevinH · Post by **KevinH** » Wed Jul 18, 2012 7:30 pm

I have one of the latest models of the Kronos 88 (#3671) and I haven't had any problems with it. I haul it to and from rehearsals and gigs. No keybed problems, no shutdowns, and the fan is very quiet. While I do find the spacers kind of funny, it only takes about 30 seconds to insert them before packing it up into my case. When I set back up, it's another 10 seconds to pull them out and toss them in my case for later use. Hardly an inconvenience, in my opinion.

So, from my experience, it seems like Korg has addressed the major issues from the product launch. If slapping an X on the new ones gives people the confidence to purchase more of them, that's a good thing.

summers2 · Post by **summers2** » Wed Jul 18, 2012 8:01 pm

Jimknopf, I was about to buy one. It was just by chance that I heard about the keybed problem. Then to further research, I started to read in forums and I could not believe what I saw. Among other things, the keyboard has a noisy fan. Are you kidding me? People were actually going into the board to change the fan, And on and on.

I owned a Korg; N364, Karma and a M3. The first two were bulletproof. I kept the Karma for 8 years without a lick of trouble. Both the N364 and the Karma are still being used in my area. The M3 was sold out of my area but it gave me no trouble. If I got a board with the problems that the kronos had, I would throw it out the window. I know that it must sound good, but I can't see it sounding that much better and being that much more comprehensive than, say, a Motif XF.

I had a lot of respect for the Korg name.(but) The things that they are doing concerning the Kronos are puzzling to me. If they had spent as much time and money trying to make the Kronos what it should be as they spent creating the X, they could have found solutions to the problems put forth and made them available to their current korg Kronos owners and purchasers(rather that what they did).

I would really like to see two forum sections; one for Kronos and one for Kronos X. Information gained from the two compared might give a clue.

danmusician · Post by **danmusician** » Wed Jul 18, 2012 8:21 pm

Korg would do it because it's in the best interest of users and the company to keep moving forward.

Summers2, you are exactly the type of musician many of us have worried about on these boards. Yes, there have been problems. But they have been exaggerated on these boards. For a potential buyer researching as you did, you get a false impression of the quality of the instrument when you come here.

In my case, I bought a 73 last summer. It was damaged in a car accident. I received insurance money to replace it. I could have purchased anything. I got another 73.

My first one did NOT have the keybed problem, the second one did. Neither have the fan problem or any of the other issues listed here.

The only problem I'm having now is an issue with KARMA tempi and Set List. Korg has been helpful in trying to track it down, but has not been able to replicate my situation. I don't fault them. I must be doing some combination of steps causing the issue, but I can't reliably replicate the problem myself. In a system this complex, it's impossible for a company to anticipate everyone's user configuration.

I would encourage anyone to buy a Kronos. In the unlikely event you get one with issues, Korg is a stand up company that will make it right!

michelkeijzers · Post by **michelkeijzers** » Wed Jul 18, 2012 8:48 pm

danmusician wrote: I would encourage anyone to buy a Kronos. In the unlikely event you get one with issues, Korg is a stand up company that will make it right!

+1 ... it sometimes can take some take before it gets right, but its better than the competition who does barely make any progress at all.

robinkle · Post by **robinkle** » Wed Jul 18, 2012 8:59 pm

Naming Kronos X, the new Kronos, is an overstatement. It's the same machine with more memory. It's like Macbook pro with 8 GB ram vs a Mac book pro with 16 GB ram. Same machine, nothing new.

RonF · Post by **RonF** » Wed Jul 18, 2012 9:34 pm

robinkle wrote:Naming Kronos X, the new Kronos, is an overstatement. It's the same machine with more memory. It's like Macbook pro with 8 GB ram vs a Mac book pro with 16 GB ram. Same machine, nothing new.

Big +1. IF you happen to have a machine with bona fide problems, THEN you are going to be disgruntled about it. That's just life. What jimknopf is saying above is simply.....a working Kronos is an amazing instrument and a remarkably creative tool. Striving to obtain a fully functional unit is WORTH IT! Because what you get for your effort is fantastic....even ground breaking. I've had no problems with my unit, and I use the crap out of it daily, and I consider myself a comprehensive user of all aspects of the machine for over a year now. For sure....If mine broke or had problems, I would be disappointed, even pissed....but I would spare no time or expense to get it fixed and back up and running in my studio. Why?...because I have had the *pleasure* of using a Kronos with NO problems for over a year. So I know how this feels, and I have the confidence of knowing its a reality. I can understand that someone who just purchases a new Kronos, only to find that its flawed or defective in some way, may *wonder* if this thing is worth it?, or just a P.O.S.?
Well that is the point of the "defenders" of the Kronos. Not to deflect or minimize the reality for those who may have problems....only to say that there is another VERY real "reality" for others who have had no problems....its awesome...and its worth it!

If you've had problems, be pissed that its happened to you, no doubt! But still...a fully working Kronos DOES exist "in the wild"....and its very worth obtaining one, if you so desire. JMHO of course.

cello · Post by **cello** » Wed Jul 18, 2012 9:38 pm

michelkeijzers wrote:... but its better than the competition who does barely make any progress at all.

I get your point but I think that's a generalisation too far! The Kronos does not represent a huge leap of progress compared to the 2005 OASYS -which had NO build issues whatsoever. Yes, the Kronos leaves other workstations looking very tired, I admit. Yes, Kronos enjoys better technology bits/pieces and new libraries. But there's more to it than just the relative competitive progress - there's the investment bit...

When I got the JP-80, the standard, yes standard, manufacturer's warranty given on the unit was 5 years. That's better than Korg offer - by a very, very long way - and I don't think for a single second I'll ever need such a warranty.

Additionally, no bug fixes required. No hardware issues, etc, etc. No year later, release a somewhat confusing 'next' version...

Yes, I know that the JP-80 does not equal the Kronos at all - the Kronos is way more powerful - BUT - they both cost roughly the same amount so can be compared in terms of the investment made in the relative companies and the build quality of the offered products (for the comparable budget).

I think the balance between function and investment is part of the equation and for me, the X factor is simply a confusing one that adds very little value to that equation, but only try to distance itself from the previous release.

Shakil · Post by **Shakil** » Wed Jul 18, 2012 10:11 pm

summers2 wrote:I know that it must sound good, but I can't see it sounding that much better and being that much more comprehensive than, say, a Motif XF.

You either don't know Motif XF or KRONOS. Motif XF has less than half of sound design and recording facilities than KRONOS.