Kronos Latency?

winip · Post by **winip** » Mon Jul 23, 2012 9:48 pm

I'm not sure if it's my imagination or if there is really something going on with the Kronos. I have the 88 and there seems to be latency, albeit slight, similar to using virtual synths with approximately 12 - 15 ms.
Has anyone else had this impression - or is there maybe something going on with the attack or velocity curve which I could adjust? I love the board, but this has been bugging me for a while.
Thank you,
paul

Post by **Sharp** » Mon Jul 23, 2012 9:57 pm

Latency on the KRONOS ?
I've never felt any latency, ever.

Are you listening to the KRONOS through a Compressor with the look ahead function set too high ?

Regards
Sharp.

winip · Post by **winip** » Mon Jul 23, 2012 10:18 pm

No external effects at all - I'm hoping it's just my imagination. It is slight to be sure, but it feels like when I used Mainstage.

Kevin Nolan · Post by **Kevin Nolan** » Mon Jul 23, 2012 10:31 pm

Do you notice it as a constant, irrespective of what program, or mode, you're working in?

Certainly when you layer many sounds - for example with multiple programs on the same MIDI channel in a Combi, and playing fistfuls of notes and pushing the instrument to its note limit, you will hear latency.

Similarly, when laden with many Sequencer MIDI tracks, it copes quite poorly with synchronization of all tracks (and especially when realtime recording the last tracks).

But it's not constant - it depends on how many notes you're playing, how many layers you've set up and so on.

for single programs, you should not be able to hear the latency.

Perhaps you have particularly sharp timing perception too?

Scatter · Post by **Scatter** » Mon Jul 23, 2012 10:37 pm

When the Kronos was first launched a Japanese guy opened his up and posted photos of its internals on his blog. I recall he also performed a latency test and claimed 8ms.

EDIT:

http://si7-lab.blogspot.co.uk/2011/06/k ... -slow.html

http://si7-lab.blogspot.co.uk/2011/06/o ... ronos.html

Post by **Sharp** » Mon Jul 23, 2012 10:42 pm

Kevin Nolan wrote:Do you notice it as a constant, irrespective of what program, or mode, you're working in?

Certainly when you layer many sounds - for example with multiple programs on the same MIDI channel in a Combi, and playing fistfuls of notes and pushing the instrument to its note limit, you will hear latency.

Similarly, when laden with many Sequencer MIDI tracks, it copes quite poorly with synchronization of all tracks (and especially when realtime recording the last tracks).

But it's not constant - it depends on how many notes you're playing, how many layers you've set up and so on.

for single programs, you should not be able to hear the latency.

Perhaps you have particularly sharp timing perception too?

Is that even possible ?

I've never experienced that and I wonder if it's even possible for the latency to change depending on how many sounds your playing. CPU load will go up, and you will see the voice stealing note function kicking in, but latency is surly locked with the buffer KORG have set.

They lock the buffer, and they set the maximum notes the system can play, which as far as I understand prevents buffer under runs and which make the latency a constant value regardless of how many notes you play.

Regards
Sharp.

winip · Post by **winip** » Mon Jul 23, 2012 10:54 pm

I do notice it as a constant regardless of mode. I have checked with various other band members and they have noticed nothing (other than loving the sound of the thing).
I have nineteen other keyboards (including an early Minimoog) and have not experienced this in a board.
Don't get me wrong I love the Kronos - it means playing out with one keyboard for the first time ever. But I wish I could figure out if the minimal latency is for real or in my head.
Thank you for the replies.
paul

danatkorg · Post by **danatkorg** » Mon Jul 23, 2012 11:47 pm

I commented on this elsewhere; here's a copy:

* * *

There are a couple of things to note about the KRONOS latency tests referred to in the original post. The first is that they appear to be measured from the start of the MIDI message. However, the MIDI message has to be complete before the note can be started, and the MIDI note-on message may or may not include the status byte, so it's important to measure from the end of the MIDI message instead of the beginning. The graphics, handily, appear to be one pixel per 0.1 ms, so it's easy to re-measure from end-of-MIDI to audio-on (especially with the vertical edges in this graphic): 70 pixels, or 7 ms.

The second is that the tests are from MIDI. Though doing so would presumably void the warranty, you could test the latency from the local keyboard by opening up the instrument and wiring up the key contacts and audio outputs to a scope. I expect that you would find that it's within the minimum spec for playing drums and keyboards as discussed here: http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jan05/a ... sician.htm

Finally, the assumption that even the corrected 7ms MIDI figure is too long is curious to me, since I know that some very, very popular synths had longer latency than that. Please forgive me for being a bit circumspect about making specific claims, since Korg has not officially published any latency figures.

* * *

Hope this helps,

Dan

SanderXpander · Post by **SanderXpander** » Tue Jul 24, 2012 4:55 am

I've never felt any and I'm pretty particular about it. Is there any way for you to compare it to another Kronos?

/EDIT: I lie, I feel there is latency using the real time knob on filter cutoff, but I suspect this has to do with the smoothing algorithm and I can live with it.

LTEDT · Post by **LTEDT** » Tue Jul 24, 2012 5:58 am

I have experienced latency on stage once,but realized it was because of the way instruments were wired to the mixer/amp from the stage(about 400meters away from the mixer/amp). I tested Kronos again but this time close to the mixer, and did not hear any latency at all. Perhaps this is a possibility in OP case?

michelkeijzers · Post by **michelkeijzers** » Tue Jul 24, 2012 8:24 am

I also never experienced it.

Btw, I also never experienced it on the N264, but I played on it some time ago and it was really awful ... wondering if something was wrong wit it. It only had a 10 meter audio cable to some stereo system.

levioter · Post by **levioter** » Tue Jul 24, 2012 2:47 pm

Same for me !
I did not have any latency !
Very strange !

Regards.

1jordyzzz · Post by **1jordyzzz** » Tue Jul 24, 2012 6:39 pm

i felt no latency too... if there is a latency, i wouldn't mind.. no electric apparatus has no latency.. it must have a very small latency to take the signal through circuit board...

if there is a latency, i would never play piano with joy and ease.. take a look at my video on my signature for example (PROMOTION TIME

)..

jimknopf · Post by **jimknopf** » Tue Jul 24, 2012 6:53 pm

No perceived latency in normal playing conditions here as well.

I normally begin to feel uneasy with latencies above 12ms, referring to the conventional forms of measuring, musician magazine testing and company advertising of internal and external PC soundcards (the measured results are not precise in many cases for different reasons, but most give a rough clue what to expect).

JPWC · Post by **JPWC** » Tue Jul 24, 2012 7:57 pm

while some people maybe able to hear a time shift of 3 mS to 7 mS. Most Keyboard players learn to compensate for this time shift, without even knowing most times.

Time shifts of 5 mS range are commonly refered to as the feel, rushing or dragging the beat.