Sample libraries sugestions and copyrights

xfoadx · Post by **xfoadx** » Sun Aug 05, 2012 8:14 pm

Hi, proud owner of a Kronos & my first post.

What about samples of drum machines, especially drum machines that use samples?
The closer to the original sounds the more desirable the samples.
The TR707 is made up of samples of the TR909, which itself uses samples on some voices.
Then taking samples that someone else made of those samples and using them... and on it goes...

If you use the raw waveforms of an instrument you own in a song and someone samples it from your song, are they sampling from you or vicariously from the instrument?

Beyond any understanding I have of it.

Matt.

Post by **Sharp** » Sun Aug 05, 2012 8:52 pm

xfoadx wrote:Hi, proud owner of a Kronos & my first post.

What about samples of drum machines, especially drum machines that use samples?
The closer to the original sounds the more desirable the samples.
The TR707 is made up of samples of the TR909, which itself uses samples on some voices.
Then taking samples that someone else made of those samples and using them... and on it goes...

If you use the raw waveforms of an instrument you own in a song and someone samples it from your song, are they sampling from you or vicariously from the instrument?

Beyond any understanding I have of it.

Matt.

Hi xfoadx.

If you want to sample an instrument you own for use in your music and you have no intentions of sharing those raw sample files for free and you don't sell them, then do as you like as much as you like. Nobody can touch you legally on this at all.

If you want to sample something as old as a TR Drum machine to give those samples away for free or sell them, I can't see that being a problem at all either. It's too old for Roland to even care and it falls into the same category of activity as what is currently popular where people sample and sell everything very old.

Regards
Sharp

Rskeys · Post by **Rskeys** » Mon Aug 06, 2012 5:53 am

This shure is a complex topic from a legal point of view.

Just to be clear, i own a copy of omnisphere and i dont intend to sell anything, i just tought if i'm going to sample for my personal use i wouldnt mind sharing that work with fellow korg users.

I really like some of the omnisphere sounds as they are, yes this is cloning, then maybe i should keep this cloned sounds just for my
personal use. I have alot of respect for Spectrasonics hard work, i would
never have the nerve to sell a single wave of them taking advantage of their work. The sad thing about this is that any of us can go to piratebay and download the vst. I admit i did it before i bought it...
Another matter should be how to measure the amount of tweaking necessary to not be considered cloning, this may be a very grey area...

Sharp, i did try the extra brass Ex, but IMHO they sound weak in a mix and lacking sufficient articulation for my taste. Last couple of years i playes alot with latin brass players so i gess i may be asking for to much of a sound quality. Yesterday a friend of mine sugested a vst called
Kick Ass brass, i still havent got arround to ear it...

I really apreciate your sugestions for brass and Electric guitars.

Regards,

Ricardo[/i][/b]

mathieumaes · Post by **mathieumaes** » Mon Aug 06, 2012 2:42 pm

Is copyrights the reason why they always come up with patch names that only suggest the original instrument ?

I always guessed that "German piano" is a Steinway and "Japanese piano" probably a Yamaha ?

Post by **Sharp** » Mon Aug 06, 2012 2:45 pm

mathieumaes wrote:Is copyrights the reason why they always come up with patch names that only suggest the original instrument ?

I always guessed that "German piano" is a Steinway and "Japanese piano" probably a Yamaha ?

Yes.

Regards
Sharp.

.Jens · Post by **.Jens** » Mon Aug 06, 2012 5:51 pm

mathieumaes wrote:Is copyrights the reason why they always come up with patch names that only suggest the original instrument ?

Well, not really copyright, but trademark law, I think. But I don't like the consequences, however you call it.

While I surely can understand that you cannot go over and sample foreign content and sell it again, it's complete nonsense to be forced to cryptic names like "US Highgain" or "UK Boutique" (git amps).

rs.felicio · Post by **rs.felicio** » Mon Aug 06, 2012 10:22 pm

I'm very curious about this subject....good post.

I'd like to use two examples, thinking only about sharing free files here on this group (not for commercial purposes).

1 - I recently bought a version of Logic Pro......If I use the .aif files or maybe re-sampler some instruments to create five new PROGs on of Kronos,

2 - Or if I re-sampler an piano sound of an S90ES

And share this progs free of charge here on forum......this is legal or not?

I believe that we could get a lot of experience / knowledge sharing our samples, what do you think about it?

BasariStudios · Post by **BasariStudios** » Mon Aug 06, 2012 10:42 pm

Felicio, both lines fall underthe protection of the law which makes them illegal.

apex · Post by **apex** » Mon Aug 06, 2012 11:00 pm

so confused....lol

Attic · Post by **Attic** » Sun Aug 12, 2012 9:36 am

Here is a way to look at it. If it is from an analog synth like a Juno106 you can sample and redistribute it. If it is from a digital synth you cannot redistribute it but can use it personally without giving it away. You draw the line at synths like the M1 or the Wavestation. You can not redistribute the samples from the M1 or wavestation because their roms where effectively full of little tiny recordings. However with analog synths like the Juno the sound is generated from a raw circuit .... it is not a recording it is math, thus you can redistribute your recordings of it.

Post by **Sharp** » Sun Aug 12, 2012 12:17 pm

Attic wrote:Here is a way to look at it. If it is from an analog synth like a Juno106 you can sample and redistribute it. If it is from a digital synth you cannot redistribute it but can use it personally without giving it away. You draw the line at synths like the M1 or the Wavestation. You can not redistribute the samples from the M1 or wavestation because their roms where effectively full of little tiny recordings. However with analog synths like the Juno the sound is generated from a raw circuit .... it is not a recording it is math, thus you can redistribute your recordings of it.

Yet I could name countless different examples that demonstrate the complete opposite actually takes place in the market place.

Take the Melotron samples inside your KRONOS. They are recordings of tapes.

Regards
Sharp.

Synthetica · Post by **Synthetica** » Mon Aug 13, 2012 1:29 am

I once asked Eric of Spectrasonics this very question when it came to there product Atmosphere which has a similar license agreement to Omnisphere.

His answer was to the effect of:

"If I sample one of their instruments and then use this sample in another synth for use in my own song it is not violation of their license agreement."

"If I sample their instrument for use in a sample library and then sell that library I created, I am in violation of their agreement"

Post by **Sharp** » Mon Aug 13, 2012 10:41 am

Synthetica wrote:I once asked Eric of Spectrasonics this very question when it came to there product Atmosphere which has a similar license agreement to Omnisphere.

His answer was to the effect of:

"If I sample one of their instruments and then use this sample in another synth for use in my own song it is not violation of their license agreement."

"If I sample their instrument for use in a sample library and then sell that library I created, I am in violation of their agreement"

If you or they sample a factory sound, sure. But.... See this...

http://www.spectrasonics.net/products/o ... ources.php

As you can see the vast majority of Omnisphere samples were all taken from other products.

Regards
Sharp.

Dniss · Post by **Dniss** » Mon Aug 13, 2012 4:30 pm

Here's how the law works in most countries. Again, copywright laws may have different provision depending on your location.

But generally speaking:

If you proceed with an action that causes prejudice to another party, you may be liable in a civil court of law and legal action may be taken against you.

In other words, if you port Omnisphere sounds to the Kronos and users are changing their minds about buying Omnisphere because they can get the sounds from you, you are creating a prejudice to Spectrasonics.

In some cases it may be easy to prove, in other cases impossible. Every case is event specific.

Now I'm not claiming to be an expert in copywright laws or that my explanation is the end of all things either.

Just posting my understanding on how law works generally.

apex · Post by **apex** » Fri Aug 17, 2012 8:38 pm

wouldn't it be a good idea to just sample the WAVE ROM of these instruments instead of the actual programs themselves?

wouldn't that allow alot more flexibility?