Master Combination volume

[cmaguilera]

Hello!! .

I have a big problem with the volume of a couple of combinations.
The volume of these two combinations is much higher compared to the rest.

I would like to lower the volume of these two combinations but my attempts have failed so far.

This is what I tried:

1.- I tried to edit each combination and lower the volume of the programs that make up the combination (P1).

The resulting volume is lower but the sound resulting from the combination is quite different.

I think this is because the insert effects (or global effects, i don't know) of the combination does not attack the same way.

2.- I tried to use a midi foot pedal (FCB1010) and send a midi message to change the volume (07) when i changue the program too.

The result is similar to the first attempt. The sound of the combination is different when the midi volume is not 127.

I would like to changue the 'overall volume' and not the 'program volume'.

The trinity's documentation says that:

"A Master Volume message [F0, 7F, nn, 04, 01, vv, mm, F7] (vv: lower byte of value, mm: upper byte of value; together expressing 16384 steps) can adjust the overall volume while preserving the volume balance between timbres of a combination, or between tracks of a song".

But a don't know how send a midi message like tha with the FCB1010 foot controller.

Is there any solution to my problem (with or without a midi foot pedal)?

Thank you very much.

Regards.

Carlos

[michelkeijzers]

You can change the volume of each timbre in a combi, and you also can lower them by ratio by clicking a checkbox in the top of the screen (don't have a Kronos around so I don't know the exact name).

[cmaguilera]

I know it. But the problem is that the resulting sound of the combi is not the same!!. It's sounds different. I don't know why. I think it's because the effects.....
All i want is to keep these combis with hthe same sound with a lower volume.

Regards!!.

Carlos.

[michelkeijzers]

The effects are added later (after the volume of each timbre). So yes, you probably are right the effects may cause a non linear increase of different timbres.

you can check it by disabling all effects and increase/lower volume of each timbre. Then adjust effects by hearing.

[cmaguilera]

Thank you.

I've tried it but it's not easy to get the same result. It has a lot of insert effects and i'm not at all an expert on the parameters of each effect. It's a complex task.

And you are right. It's not linear. It's easy to see it when i modify the program volume by midi (with the foot controller): The combi only sounds well when volume value is 127.

Regards!!.

[synthjoe]

Carlos,

Go to page 6 of the 'Effect Guide'. That gives you a pretty good overview of the signal flow in combi mode (the individual timbre volume control is missing from the drawing, but let's disregard that, for a moment). From the diagram and the actual combi settings you should be able to figure out what to change in order to retain the balance and reduce the volume.

As a rule of thumb I'd suggest to go to combi edit page 1-2 and lower Volume and Send 1&2 for timbres that don't have an insert effect applied to them (check combi edit page 7). Since master effects are only delay and reverb style (i.e. no distortion or other modulation effects that would be dependent on signal dynamics) lowering send 1&2 should not affect the sound, only the program's and effect's level - this suits your goal.

Those sounds that have insert effects assigned (combination edit page 7) should be kept at the same output level on page 1-2 because those are likely using modulations effects that are dependent on the input signal. For these you'll have to go into insert effect edit (p7, select the insert effect and use the tabs at the bottom) and find a way to reduce the effect output level - some insert effects will have such a facility, for others you might have to insert a simple effect at the end of the chain fur such purpose (or find another way) and/or play with the insert effect's Send 1&2 to reach your objective.

I know it is not very intuitive, but this is the right way of doing it. As to the master volume control, you should make sure that control change is enabled on page 2 of 'Global Edit'. FCB1010 should be able to send that message without a problem (even though I don't use it, so cannot know for sure - check the bottom of page 8 of the English manual of the FCB1010). However, this is likely to bring the same result as lowering the volumes on page 1-2 of Combi Edit (confirmed by you writing that it only sounds good when the value is 127). So I think the final solution is going to be along the line I described above.

Hope this helps.

[Timo]

Some comprehensive answers here.

Just one other thing to look for: Sounds which are much louder than others may exceed the available internal headroom and cause digital clipping (distortion). In some circumstances, this distortion may actually adds something pleasing to the sound, and lowering the internal volumes lowers or stops this distortion and you're left wondering why it doesn't sound as it did.

Of course I'm not advocating overloading all the digital headroom purposely, as it's usually very brutal to most sounds (as opposed to soft-clipping in the analogue domain), but it's something to be aware of and, depending on the type of sound, it does have a nice effect on the odd occasion (on solo timbres, as opposed to a mix).

[billbaker]

A list of IFX / MFX used and levels might help diagnose the problem.

I.e., compression, exciter or EQ levels can all contribute to overall volume.

BB

[cmaguilera]

synthjoe, Timo and billbaker, a thousand thanks!!!!.
I followed the instructions of synthjoe and I have it!.
I could not get a sound exactly as the original but it looks close enough with an appropriate volume level.
Thank you very much again. It's a luxury to have your help!!

Kind Regards!!

Carlos.

[synthjoe]

Glad it helped - enjoy making lots of music with it!