What has happened to this world???!!!

[blinkofanI]

I can, to a certain extent, understand to let people have a weapon for auto-defense but a weapon that can kill 20 kids and 6 adults in a matter of minutes is hardly an instrument for auto-defense, imho. If those kind of weapons are sold legally, that is one place to start and change some laws.

Blink

Knowledge is your friend . You can kill even more people than this with most any gun sold on todays market with the exception of single shot weapons which hardly classify them as anything worthy of self defence.

Yes this is a horrible thing that happened but making more laws and restricting law abiding citizens freedom to protect themselves from the people like this who wish them harm does absolutely nothing in the way of preventing seens like this as we are all now well aware.

On the contrary this is an excellent example of why more people should carry protection . You sure can bet if the parents of those who died had the chance to protect them they would have, at least if they are even half a human being.

There have been semi and automatic guns with us for a very long time. Not many went around killing sprees with them or with bombs or anything else. Perhaps it is time to focus on the real problems and not make them up as we go along so we might FEEL GOOD.
Start with over medication with pchycotropic drugs of our youth and adults alike and go from there.

A nice little viscious circle if you ask me. Don't want to be mean, but reading you guys throwing numbers to justify to have a gun(you can make numbers say anything), i see you as modern-day cowboys. It's quite scary to read someone say a single shot weapon is hardly a self-defense weapon.

Anyway, i don't want to offend anyone(sorry if i already did and it's too late) and i'll get out of here before it turns ugly. Let's say we're not on the same page on this topic for sure, and we'll never be, whatever numbers you throw at me.

Peace, if i may say...

Blink

[Sam CA]

It seems like people are trying to outdo one another. Whoever kills the most is the name of the game now? People with "personality disorder" used to just commit suicide. Clearly, that's not the case anymore. Few weeks from now, this will be completely forgotten till the next psycho wakes up one morning with even more ammunition...

[csteen]

I can, to a certain extent, understand to let people have a weapon for auto-defense but a weapon that can kill 20 kids and 6 adults in a matter of minutes is hardly an instrument for auto-defense, imho. If those kind of weapons are sold legally, that is one place to start and change some laws.

Blink

Knowledge is your friend . You can kill even more people than this with most any gun sold on todays market with the exception of single shot weapons which hardly classify them as anything worthy of self defence.

Yes this is a horrible thing that happened but making more laws and restricting law abiding citizens freedom to protect themselves from the people like this who wish them harm does absolutely nothing in the way of preventing seens like this as we are all now well aware.

On the contrary this is an excellent example of why more people should carry protection . You sure can bet if the parents of those who died had the chance to protect them they would have, at least if they are even half a human being.

There have been semi and automatic guns with us for a very long time. Not many went around killing sprees with them or with bombs or anything else. Perhaps it is time to focus on the real problems and not make them up as we go along so we might FEEL GOOD.
Start with over medication with pchycotropic drugs of our youth and adults alike and go from there.

A nice little viscious circle if you ask me. Don't want to be mean, but reading you guys throwing numbers to justify to have a gun(you can make numbers say anything), i see you as modern-day cowboys. It's quite scary to read someone say a single shot weapon is hardly a self-defense weapon.

Anyway, i don't want to offend anyone(sorry if i already did and it's too late) and i'll get out of here before it turns ugly. Let's say we're not on the same page on this topic for sure, and we'll never be, whatever numbers you throw at me.

Peace, if i may say...

Blink

Sorry you obviously misunderstood as it was you who brought up the numbers game . But hey let us not let facts get in our way as they have yet to seem all that important to you so far. Perhaps you should go read YOUR post to us one more time lol. And it is even scarier to know someone actually believes that a single shot would be a self defence weapon. A little friendly advice, learn more about weapons before you ever consider carrying one. Someone might get hurt other than the perp otherwise.
Oh and just for further info, I do not need to justify my owning a gun to you or anyone else just so we get that straight. They are mine and if you want one get your own. I hear they are EASY to get, good luck. I am fine with what I have/Please at least have the same consideration for us who do own them.
Peace be with you hopefully as well pardner.

[Pepperpotty]

Guys stop this now! This was supposed to be a post about a horrific shooting. Instead it's turned in to a debate about gun laws.

What ever way you look at it. Countries who allow people to carry guns are always going to have a much higher gun crime rate than countries that don't.

Anyway, I'm leaving this post open to allow people to pay their respects but I don't want to hear any more arguments about who knows more about guns and gun laws than who.

[Fred x]

Hi All

I think it was about time that Pepperpotty intervened. We allow our selves to deviate from the Main topic so easily simply to portray our own views which frequently have little to do with the subject matter.

Just think of the poor kids that are left. They are going to be left with the nightmare of this event for the rest of their lives. Lets just hope that they belong to families that believe in the Concept of Happy Family Life and not just let the kids sit and watch TV all day and night. They are going to need lots of love and understanding for many years to come.

The man that committed this horrific crime obviously did not have a happy family upbringing, most probably no one noticed the boy was gradually withdrawing into the black hole of depression.

[blinkofanI]

Hi All

I think it was about time that Pepperpotty intervened. We allow our selves to deviate from the Main topic so easily simply to portray our own views which frequently have little to do with the subject matter.

Just think of the poor kids that are left. They are going to be left with the nightmare of this event for the rest of their lives. Lets just hope that they belong to families that believe in the Concept of Happy Family Life and not just let the kids sit and watch TV all day and night. They are going to need lots of love and understanding for many years to come.

The man that committed this horrific crime obviously did not have a happy family upbringing, most probably no one noticed the boy was gradually withdrawing into the black hole of depression.

Agreed, sorry about this. Fred x post highlights what is way more important.

Blink

[csteen]

Actually Patty you were the one who started the gun law CRAP if you take time to go back and read. When my rights are attacked I defend myself. I would hope on a forum you would not expect less from someone. So please knock it off with the guys get along stuff, if you do not want to talk about gun laws YOU should not bring them up. I do not understand why the innocent always are attacked for what others do it is not at all fair, I never shot anyone nor has anyone I know.

[Pepperpotty]

Csteen, if you want to discuss gun laws then go to a firearms forum and not a music forum. If you want to carry on with "you started it" rants then go ahead but you can then find yourself another music forum to use.

[csteen]

I can understand why you might feel that way. I am fine and can leave it at that.

[BasariStudios]

[keith-helen]

Nedim

Your post says it all.

Nothing more to add

Keith Lawton

[csteen]

Santa was not alone crying when he heard about what this maniac had done to those poor little children. That I believe sums up how we all should be feeling very well indeed. Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, and on and on it goes and yes even in my own country the United States. Crazy people do crazy things and we all suffer for this. We all need to come to our senses at some point. The war and senseless killings surely need to end I just do not see it happening soon I am sad to say.

[Ojustaboo]

I personally think that the type of gun allowed to be owned on private land (your house, not a shooting club etc) should be limited to a basic handgun.

People snap, its a sad fact, someone could snap driving a car and run over people as happened recently in the UK, people could snap and grab a gun.

But if you were only allowed one basic handgun per property, when someone does snap, they might kill a handful of people, but chances are they would never get close to killing the amount killed in this latest tradegy.

Sure criminals can always get hold of weapons, sometimes innocent people get killed by such weapons. But in all cases of someone snapping and causing a masacure that I can think of, it's always by legally held firearms.

And more and more the type of weapon used has no place outside of war

Sadly though we only sit up and think when it's a large amount killed in one event and ignore the fact that many more are murdered every single week and they also have sons/daughters/wives/husbands etc

A storm hit the Philippines early December over 1000 are confirmed dead, 850 still missing but try finding any info about that on UK news, it is there but you have to search.

Don't get me wrong, I really feel for those poor kids and their parents, but I feel just as much for the poor kids and parents in the Philippines and i often think that as far as many western countries and their media go, if they aren't dying in our back yard, we're not really interested.

Edit: just read further into the thread and see we aren't supposed to be discussing gun law, hope what I said is ok, it's more opinion than discussing the law.

[Ojustaboo]

Might be controversial to say this and i know some people will go against me
but i call this the Fruit of the double edged sword called Western Democracy.
I still believe people should be under dictatorship

Hope I don't break the no politics etc rule by replying to this,

Depending on how you look at things, many so called free countries really are a type of dictatorship, they might have elections every few years for the new puppet to be on display, but behind the scenes little changes.

I personally am not anti war. I actually think that often things get out of hand due to the unwillingness of the UN to go into places when trouble first arises, letting the situation brew for months if not years meaning that if the UN ever does get its arse into gear, by that time too many people know whole families etc wiped out by the opposition and want revenge not peace..

However I've also said to most people I know in real life that while we in the west can't fathom being under the likes of Saddam Husain, while he might be responsible for various atrocities (and both the UK and the US are just as guilty of committing a fair few themselves really), countries like that need a dictator to hold it together.

I am convinced the average person found walking through the markets far safer with Saddam than they do now.

I said the same thing about Egypt, and everyone told me how happy the Egyptians would now be and how wrong I was, now I look at the latest news.

Then there's Syria, the killing that's been going on there is totally down to western governments encouraging their people to do what the Egyptians etc have done.

Its easy for us to sit in our comfy houses believing that if everyone else thought and acted the way we do, the world would be a perfect place (I'm sure hitler thought something similar), it wouldn't .

I guarantee that Iraq, Egypt etc will have unrest for years and years to come.

[BasariStudios]

I am convinced the average person found walking through the markets far safer with Saddam than they do now.

Of course they are safer...you really believe...or anyone the American Bull@#$%?
You really think we give people Democracy while we in the US are under dictatorship?