Clavia / NORD - taking over the (stage) world !! ??

[laandodeman]

It's all psychology. Also the admiration of the red color seems to follow Clavia's success instead of vice versa. Is the red color really that beautiful? When I saw it for the first time, i thought it was ugly. My Nord Stage went orange because of daylight, just like 80s cars tended to do. Cheapo.

And did you ever take a look at the Clavia hammond clone in red. You can't seriously think that's hot! Its a clowns hammond

[Stipes Vigilo]

Red is proven to be a color which accelerates heartbeat. So impusle buying would also be increased. Personally, only played one in a store and wasn't impressed enough to think of it as anymore than a novation (which I owned at the time). The real killer was that cheap little ancient ARP-like slider for a pitch bend for me.

[Vlad_77]

Whether they take over the world or not doesn't make a difference to me but that said, I played a few Nords here and in America and frankly, I wasn't blown away. They really push Nords here in the Rotterdam area - in one shop the keyboard department is actually split into two rooms: Nords in one room - toward the front - and Korg, Yamaha, Roland, and Kurzweil in the other!

Not knocking the Nord or rather the musicians playing them, but for me, in every case, I just felt "meh."

So, once I can get a V-Synth XT (yeah I know, wishful thinking), I will consider my palette complete - at least until/if Kurzweil releases their next beast.

It was mentioned that Nord is more "immediate." That may be, but, in terms of sheer power, at this point in the game, Kronos offers so much more.

[SanderXpander]

Red is proven to be a color which accelerates heartbeat. So impusle buying would also be increased. Personally, only played one in a store and wasn't impressed enough to think of it as anymore than a novation (which I owned at the time). The real killer was that cheap little ancient ARP-like slider for a pitch bend for me.

That's quite a wild assumption there. Quotation please, especially for the research linking the color red to impulse buying.
I actually liked the wood and stone pitch/modulation control

[kanout]

I Had some nord keyboards in the past and actually.(nord stage ex,nord wave,nord piano,nord electro 3,nord stage 2....and actually i'm gigging live with the new nord piano 2 as the heavy keyboard(or kurzweil pc3 k8)and the new nord electro 4 73 for organs.

So i've got now a good experience i think to know and feel what nord keyboards are(bar,pub,little and biger scene)
(i had a kronos 61,3 korg SV1,3 M3 so i know what korg is..and i've got the jupiter 80 too with the kurz pc3k8 too.


Construction and reliability:
The metal,construction handmade in sweden is far beyond the chinese plastic metal RH3 kronos construction.
For exemple,i ve used 2 years a nord stage 2(76) on diverse scenes,it was like the first day i opened the box..
I've sold it at a very good price,and lost less money than if it was a 2 years kronos..
Nothing to compare,a NORD is a good and better investment,you loose less money than some other keyboard..
Because of this construction and quality made,these keyboards are more organic than others,even some years after.
These are a kind of beautiful metal objects,and maybe some people here find that idea subjective,so many musician loves that!

In comparaison,today if korg has the sound quality,the technology and powerful and some innovative products....they absolutly don't produce a high level construction synth today.
Nord is at another level..korg the last from the big manufacturer without doubt.(or the first for the blind)
The kronos is a middle class construction(not bad at all)but the less reliable from the most expensive synths on the market actually.


-sounds:
Korg has a lot(i love the eps for exemple)but saying the kronos is the best is just a fan attitude:
On some forums,they did blind test and NORD piano had a very good place.
Some people prefer NORD than KORG for that.
We can speak too about the yamaha cp series, roland rd series,and kawai too.
The kronos is very good,but not the best of the best for so many people..

NORD are expensive,but you have so many FREE sounds to put in it(new pianos and samples)when some can't be upgraded,and other like kronos where you have to pay for.

Live situation:
Nord gave you in use the right direçtion to think about something,and do it quickly.
This thing is important for so much musicians.

In fact,in you don't care about construction and if reliability is not your priority,everybody must buy a kronos.
You think tech specs,all in the box for the price...and the kronos is a kind of evidence.

But music is diverse.
A lot of musicians on the planet are playing latin,pop,rock,jazz etc....and absolutly don't care about multi karma,audio sequencer,sampling...etc
NORD keyboards are quite perfect for this simple vision.
All the sounds are hight level,simple to mix...you don't loose time with thousands of parameters..you just play!

In forums,people have often more passion for specs than to play and play..
There is an evidence:
You have 24 hours a day,if you exploit the kronos and program a lot....you don't play.
Some musician prefer playing,NORD are for them.

When you are playing these red keyboards,you accept this simple vision to have the essential,without the thousands of parameters you don't really need.
This vision makes you better because no time to loose,no 1000 modulations...so you have to play naturally only by yourself.

Personaly(î know it's subjective too)i can't feel organic with a kronos,becauseit sounds like a good plug for me.
Nord keyboards are not so perfect,but so much organic.(not a pc motherboard in a semi plastic case.)

Last thing:
The weight is often important,and Nord keyboards are the lighter keyboards you can find with this sound quality and construction.

I personaly left korg because they lost the construction and reliability battle,it's one of the most important thing for me..
Korg are actually consumer chinese construction products with high level specs for people who wants to buy high level specs..
Sorry to say that.
korg is not for me,nord is for me.
I am just an exemple,but not alone.

[Goughy]

If I'm not mistaken, the Kurzweil PC3K8 is also made in China.

How would you rate the construction and reliability of the PCK38 compared to the Nord?

[geoelectro]

OK, so let me see...Kronos + Red Paint = Perfect!

Geo

[Dany]

...Personaly(î know it's subjective too)i can't feel organic with a kronos,becauseit sounds like a good plug for me.
Nord keyboards are not so perfect,but so much organic.(not a pc motherboard in a semi plastic case.) ...

This statement is indeed very "subjective" and objective it is of course completely irrational and without any factual base, because both, the Kronos and the Nords produce sounds which are based on real-time processed algorithms. It's completely irrelevant if you use a CPU or DSP Chips to process those algorithms.

But your subjective and irrational feelings and impressions remain a psychological fact, which designers of future synthesizers should consider...


PS: "Color and Psychological Functioning: The Effect of Red on Performance Attainment", University of Rochester:

http://www.psych.rochester.edu/people/e ... _Color.pdf

[kanout]

If I'm not mistaken, the Kurzweil PC3K8 is also made in China.

How would you rate the construction and reliability of the PCK38 compared to the Nord?
_________________

Yes,good question:
The kurz metal case is better for me,wood side are not plastic side,command and buttons are better..
And i believe more in the fatar keyboard than the RH3
About the global reliability:
I took from some power users and kurzweil specialists(i've got good connections with some of them in france) all the information about kurzweil PC3k series reliability before buying it.
They had some problems with some first PC3,but the PC3k is better again.

[kanout]

This statement is indeed very "subjective" and objective it is of course completely irrational and without any factual base, because both, the Kronos and the Nords produce sounds which are based on real-time processed algorithms. It's completely irrelevant if you use a CPU or DSP Chips to process those algorithms.

But your subjective and irrational feelings and impressions remain a psychological fact, which designers of future synthesizers should consider...

Well,that's the point.
I'm for dedicated chips,because for CPU i'm on a real computer.

There's a risk in every devellopment strategy.
NORD is a little company more bigger each year with an opposite strategy than korg.
They have succes!
Some people loves their philosophy,some don't because they see the "live player vision"and prefer powerful workstations.

KORG has succes with the kronos,so they have something good,but even if peter gabriel has 2 i don't see so much kronos on stage in france,less than red keyboards.
For studio oriented production,yes,but for live music....not so much.
It's logical,a serious pro live keyboard must be made like a tank...NORD has it for sure.

[Dany]

...It's logical,a serious pro live keyboard must be made like a tank...NORD has it for sure.

Now, this is objective and very true! The more expensive Rolands have also a very good build quality (Jupiter-80 is built like a tank). Korg is very capable of producing such tanks, like for example the OASYS.
I wonder if Korg's next flagship will be built like a tank or like a plastic toy...

[burningbusch]

Construction and reliability:
The metal,construction handmade in sweden is far beyond the chinese plastic metal RH3 kronos construction.
For exemple,i ve used 2 years a nord stage 2(76) on diverse scenes,it was like the first day i opened the box..
I've sold it at a very good price,and lost less money than if it was a 2 years kronos..
Nothing to compare,a NORD is a good and better investment,you loose less money than some other keyboard..
Because of this construction and quality made,these keyboards are more organic than others,even some years after.
These are a kind of beautiful metal objects,and maybe some people here find that idea subjective,so many musician loves that!

In comparaison,today if korg has the sound quality,the technology and powerful and some innovative products....they absolutly don't produce a high level construction synth today.
Nord is at another level..korg the last from the big manufacturer without doubt.(or the first for the blind)
The kronos is a middle class construction(not bad at all)but the less reliable from the most expensive synths on the market actually.

Regardless of what their marketing may say, it's my contention that Nords are no more "handmade" than other keyboards. First, the actions are made by Fatar in Italy. Watch the video of the Nord factory, the main panel comes large shipping containers FULLY assembled with all the electronics, including the knobs and switches. They admit that this does not happen at the factory but "somewhere else." Where??? I think it is far more accurate to say the keyboards are hand ASSEMBLED in Sweden by Nord. But how do you think other keyboards, like the Kronos, are put together? They too are hand ASSEMBLED. There's no other way. The Kronos is built in Japan. This hand assembly resembles a process more like building a PC.

Also, metal construction is a cheaper solution. The Kronos is brushed aluminum. Aluminum is lighter but more durable. It is less prone to dents and flexing. Do this little experiment with with you Electro 4D (a keyboard I also own). Using slight pressure, press down on the right half of the main panel. You will see it flexes enough to actually depress several keys. Now try the same with the aluminum panel on the Kronos. It won't budge. Roland and Korg use aluminum. That's good. It's more expensive, but it's a better choice.

I think Nord does some nice things and I wish them well. I'm less obsessed with their keyboards because they focus on bread and butter keyboard sounds. I've got all that covered in spades with my Kronos as I've converted in the best-of-the-best from my software libraries.

That's the disappointing thing for me. With so many incredible sounds available in digital keyboards today, so many keyboardists only want to play a handful of traditional sounds from the 70s. But then that's one of the main reasons for Nord's success.

Busch.

[kanout]

That's the disappointing thing for me. With so many incredible sounds available in digital keyboards today, so many keyboardists only want to play a handful of traditional sounds from the 70s. But then that's one of the main reasons for Nord's success.

The blues is not dead for exemple..
You don't need multi modulations and multi synthesis to play the blues.
So you don't need the kronos power.

How many bands are playing the blues?
How many bands are playing traditional keyboards sounds in diverse music?
A lot!
I'm playing in a 60/70 cover band,and in another 70 psyché rock/southern rock band..
I've got all the perfect sounds for that in a simple NORD keyboard...no need mod7 or VA1 sounds..

So many bands in the world needs a keyboard player only for pianos eps and organs..
They don't need a man who play one finger with a karma arpeggio..but traditional piano and organ parts!

[kimu]

for what i can say, on live environment clavia often wins for it's semplicity of use, straight user interface, robustness... never heard anyone having a clavia stop working or freeze in the middle of a gig.

korg worstation are more complex gear then clavia ones and for live use maybe a little less ok, for sure in studio probably it will be the reverse

[Kevin Nolan]

Have NORD taken over the world in the live keyboard department??? I think they have.

I'm wondering - how can Kronos, so superior to the NORD Stage and Electo, be so far behind? Given that Kronos sells quite well, it must be that NORD are selling keyboards in multiples of the numbers of Korg - up towards DX7 and M1 numbers?

[snip]

Still, compared to Kronos, the Electro and Stage are awful; yet, Clavia have won the battle of selling stage keyboards by a country mile - in Paris at least. Again I'll say it - I have never witnessed such a ubiquitous choice of keyboard since the DX7, it was quite shocking to witness; and I feel Korg have lost a major trick in this - whether due to poor styling, the keybed issue or perhaps even over sophistication - I don't know - but they are only selling a fraction of the numbers of Clavia stage keyboards.

Kevin.

Clavia have some cool keyboards, certainly. However - anecdotal observations from a few days in Paris are not a reliable indicator of sales figures. The estimates of sales above are far from correct.

That's very separate from the question of why someone would choose one keyboard or another, and I'm always interested to read what people have to say about that. Carry on...

- Dan

Hi Dan -

Fair points. However - Paris is surely reasonably mainstream and one of the cultural capitals of the world (though I do accept French people are very conscious of their place in the World and that may lean them towards supporting a European make synth). Nevertheless - the observation was striking. If ever there was a 'live sampling' to be done - this was the time and location - an extraordinary number of bands across a huge number of genres, and from local 'gigging' bands to big name (French) acts. The ubiquity of Clavia was, as said, striking.

I subsequently found out that Saturday was "World Music Day" and hence the reason I saw so many bands.

I realise for confidentiality reasons you can't quote number Dan - but any numerical (or relative) figures / data you could share with us would be intriguing.

It is in fact reassuring to hear you mention that what I witnessed might not be representative - I take no pleasure in reporting what I was - and hold Korg workstations in particular in too high regard to feel comfortable about the possibility that Clavia might be as dominant as they seemed on Saturday (in Paris at least).

And - if Clavia are dominant - it suggests styling and user interface being also very important to live keyboard players. Clavia have a winning combination in both of those departments for sure.


Kevin.