Using KRONOS Expansion Libraries like a DAW - solutions???

[Peas&Carrots]

Hello!

I'm REALY interested to hear your solutions / workarounds to the Kronos architecture - this question has been puzzling me for a while now...

Please correct me if I have misunderstood anything below!

After pondering over the purchase of the KARO Orchestral Expansion Libraries and others I soon realised that most of the user banks quickly fill up with new programs. Further expansion libraries could potentially confuse matters even more...this poses a potential problem especially considering the vast array of wonderful new libraries being produced.

I know that Kronos is set up to be a "live" instrument with all samples and programs instantly available however there are understandably a FINITE number of program slots and RAM available so the user ideally needs to know which expansion sample libraries and programs will be required IN ADVANCE.

Can Kronos potentially function similar to a DAW? A DAW works the opposite way round and locates ONLY the samples that are required for each song and selects these from the required sample libraries loading them to RAM / hard disk streaming.

There is a way to unload user samples to free up RAM however this seems cumbersome if you only need the one or two programmes from a library. I also understand that the Expansion Libraries can't be messed with.

I would be willing to sacrifice the immediacy of being able to instantly play sounds in exchange for eliminating the potentially tedious user preparation.

I've read various articles (e.g Wikidiot) but can't seem to find an easy solution - SO WHAT DO YOU DO?

Thanks!

[danatkorg]

As with your DAW, you make a collection of sounds, save it to a file (in the case of the Kronos, you can simply do a Save All), and then load it when required.

Like a DAW, one file per song.

Done.

- Dan

Hello!

I'm REALY interested to hear your solutions / workarounds to the Kronos architecture - this question has been puzzling me for a while now...

Please correct me if I have misunderstood anything below!

After pondering over the purchase of the KARO Orchestral Expansion Libraries and others I soon realised that most of the user banks quickly fill up with new programs. Further expansion libraries could potentially confuse matters even more...this poses a potential problem especially considering the vast array of wonderful new libraries being produced.

I know that Kronos is set up to be a "live" instrument with all samples and programs instantly available however there are understandably a FINITE number of program slots and RAM available so the user ideally needs to know which expansion sample libraries and programs will be required IN ADVANCE.

Can Kronos potentially function similar to a DAW? A DAW works the opposite way round and locates ONLY the samples that are required for each song and selects these from the required sample libraries loading them to RAM / hard disk streaming.

There is a way to unload user samples to free up RAM however this seems cumbersome if you only need the one or two programmes from a library. I also understand that the Expansion Libraries can't be messed with.

I would be willing to sacrifice the immediacy of being able to instantly play sounds in exchange for eliminating the potentially tedious user preparation.

I've read various articles (e.g Wikidiot) but can't seem to find an easy solution - SO WHAT DO YOU DO?

Thanks!

[danatkorg]

There is a way to unload user samples to free up RAM however this seems cumbersome if you only need the one or two programmes from a library. I also understand that the Expansion Libraries can't be messed with.

Sounds like a misunderstanding. You can load individual sounds from EXs, just as you would with user samples.

[Peas&Carrots]

Hi Dan

Thanks for your replies

I thought I understood the "save all" process - until now

Please forgive my misunderstanding - the creation of a "collection" of sounds appears to be what I'm interested in: After auditioning the sounds from the Expansion libraries what is your process of creating collections?

How would you quickly (and easily) load the individual sounds (and program settings) from an Expansion library without loading in the whole library?

I think I'm suffering from brain overload so any help is GREATLY appreciated!!!

(if there is an article or section in the user manual that spells this out please let me know!)

[rs.felicio]

Hello,

If i undestud correct the most importante is save your RAM, correct? If yes, I give some details on this post....http://www.korgforums.com/forum/phpBB2/ ... hp?t=92410 I don´t know if is the best solution but works for me.... you could create a "shotcut" to the full library.....

For example....you need to use just a soprano sax from EXs3, so:
- Load only the EXs3 full (cleaning all RAM, taking off the others EXs or user sample));
- Proceed the individual unload process (link above)
- Save a new userbank with only soprano sax....for example EXs3_SS_UserBank.KSC

Put this new and small file in your autoload process....so the original EXs3 continue perfect in your SSD and you could load just the "important" sounds to your gig.

You could expand this process for all packages....

[Peas&Carrots]

Hello rs.felicio

Thanks for your reply - I've seen your post before - I've asked for solutions so thank you for this

Your method involves loading in the WHOLE Expansion library then manually selecting all the items that are not required (this could be quite a number!) and then UNLOADING those selected.

If I understand correctly this process would have to be undertaken for EACH set of instruments required from EACH Expansion library....Once unloaded the user would need to create a separate .KSC file for each individual instrument/program (or set of instruments)

The required .KSC file would then need to be found from the extensive user list of KSC files when needed for EACH song etc. (putting "save all" to one side for a moment). This all requires a substantial amount of user input.

Saving RAM and program slots is perhaps not so important IF Kronos could select ONLY the programs needed for any particular song...

Please keep these suggestions coming

[danatkorg]

Hello,

If i undestud correct the most importante is save your RAM, correct? If yes, I give some details on this post....http://www.korgforums.com/forum/phpBB2/ ... hp?t=92410 I don´t know if is the best solution but works for me.... you could create a "shotcut" to the full library.....

For example....you need to use just a soprano sax from EXs3, so:
- Load only the EXs3 full (cleaning all RAM, taking off the others EXs or user sample));
- Proceed the individual unload process (link above)
- Save a new userbank with only soprano sax....for example EXs3_SS_UserBank.KSC

Put this new and small file in your autoload process....so the original EXs3 continue perfect in your SSD and you could load just the "important" sounds to your gig.

You could expand this process for all packages....

Or, just load the specific samples in the first place. You can load individual samples from an EXs; just browse into the EXs's KSC in disk mode.

[Peas&Carrots]

Hi Dan

loading multi samples without the program settings etc doesn't seem to achieve what I want - or have I misunderstood?

Thanks

[Yuma]

You will need to load the programs that make use of those samples as well.
The programs are found in the PCG file.

[Peas&Carrots]

Yuma / Dan

Finding the relevant programs and then loading OR unloading multi samples is NOT a quick process.

For example, using the EXs11 Program UG002: Small Pop Strings. The Oscillators reference:

EXs11 Small Chamber no Viola
EXs11 String Quartet 1
EXs11 Stradivari Vibrato
EXs11 4 Players per Section

Multi samples are not listed alphabetically in the KSC file (or the sample management facility) so finding them can take a while - about 2 minutes because I selected one incorrectly. Plus this example involves only 4 references - in theory there could be up to 16…

The new set of multi samples then needs to be saved with an appropriate KSC name. Also the multi samples could occupy the same RAM slots as others from different libraries (considerations then need to be given to appending / re-referencing - perhaps to be explored another time!).

So even if I become proficient with the above, creating collections of instruments this way from different libraries is extremely tedious - a set of 20 instruments could take around an hour to collate if I knew which instruments I was looking for at the outset. If my collection involved a number of Combis each referencing several Progs then it could literally take days! This takes minutes with a DAW. It is a shame that there is no option to "Open ONLY the relevant Multi samples for these Progs/Combis/Seq" but there isn't.

There MUST be a better way - Has anyone found a way round this

(edited - use of incorrect terminology)

[Yuma]

Finding the relevant programs and then loading OR unloading multi samples is NOT a quick process.

This I agree on. Removing a complete library is simple, but removing unused samples when removing only specific programs is a big task.
I haven't found a fast way to do it though. Ideally there would be a button that would remove all unused samples, based on the loaded programs.
If not used by a loaded program, the Kronos could remove such a sample then.

[rs.felicio]

+1
I khow is not simple, but the best would be load a prog on pcg and this load automaticly the kmp used on this prog...just a dream for future.

[danatkorg]

I wonder if you're making this more complicated than it needs to be.

Since this is just for one song at a time, is it really necessary to manually load only some sounds from an EXs?

Or, are you trying to make a set for more than one song at a time?

Also - re this:

Also the multi samples could occupy the same RAM slots as others from different libraries (considerations then need to be given to appending / re-referencing - perhaps to be explored another time!).

If the samples are from EXs or User Sample Banks, that won't happen.

- Dan

[Peas&Carrots]

Ideally there would be a button that would remove all unused samples, based on the loaded programs.

Yes indeed!

I khow is not simple, but the best would be load a prog on pcg and this load automaticly the kmp used on this prog...just a dream for future.

I'm dreaming!

I wonder if you're making this more complicated than it needs to be.

Thanks for your assistance here - your help is appreciated. In this particular case (i.e. loading in only the required multi samples) I think a more accurate statement might be: "I wonder if Korg are making this more complicated than it needs to be". Loading ONLY RELEVANT multi samples from ALL your Libraries at once based ONLY upon a user specified set of programs/combis etc would be the logical way to make best use of RAM and NOT the other way round (i.e. loading in all the multi samples for a few Expansion libraries and then basing your work around that).

Since this is just for one song at a time, is it really necessary to manually load only some sounds from an EXs?

I was just using this as an example really. My main gripe is that there are now many expansion libraries but understandably a finite amount of RAM. In order to make best use of RAM and to persuade customers to part with their cash Korg ideally needs to look at alternative/additional ways of loading multi samples (e.g. for a user specified list of progs/combis). What is the point in having a large SSD where you can save and stream multiple Expansion libraries if you can only have several libraries open in any one instance (and in saying this I mean without a lot of messing around as discussed previously in this post!).

If the samples are from EXs or User Sample Banks, that won't happen.

Thanks for clearing that up Dan - the Oscillators do refer to the specific EXs library folder so that's good news!

Anyway. I'm still open to suggestions but I'm guessing they might have been exhausted in this post?

Edit:

Suggestion?

Could Korg look into creating a setting (probably in Global Mode) for the following:

1. Live Mode. Kronos operates as it does currently
2. DAW Mode. Kronos ONLY looks for multi samples from relevant libraries for a user specified set of Progs/Combis

Surely option 2 would not involve a significant amount of scripting?

[phillix2]

My main gripe is that there are now many expansion libraries but understandably a finite amount of RAM. In order to make best use of RAM and to persuade customers to part with their cash Korg ideally needs to look at alternative/additional ways of loading multi samples (e.g. for a user specified list of progs/combis). What is the point in having a large SSD where you can save and stream multiple Expansion libraries if you can only have several libraries open in any one instance (and in saying this I mean without a lot of messing around as discussed previously in this post!).

Agree!