11 new sound libraries

Post by **Sharp** » Fri Jan 16, 2015 4:07 pm

Hi Guys.
In defence of my own pricing on my new EXs 92, it has taken many months of very hard work to create that library. It's 128 sounds with 100% attention to detail, tweaking endlessly, and making sure every single sample and program is exactly how I want it to be. It's a very long and very time consuming process for me.

I don't pump out a library or two a week.

So all things considered, I think it's priced very fair. I'll be lucky to break even let alone turn a profit.

That being said, if you have any suggestions, I'd love to hear your opinions.

Kind regards
Sharp.

AntonySharmman · Post by **AntonySharmman** » Fri Jan 16, 2015 4:20 pm

Just a small remark for the "few programs EXs development" !

Who among you has ever invested on sampling a famous Grand piano ? or has spent thousands of dollars or any , in renting/studios
and gear to achieve that ?
Copying or pirating or re-sampling others work makes you experts of how much a 4 Kronos programs piano in Korg's store should cost ?
Fancy programming can never compete a crystal clear sampling project , so see the obvious and not just chatting and speculating !
This reference is made to honor all pure sound developers of Korg's store !

Derek Cook · Post by **Derek Cook** » Fri Jan 16, 2015 5:03 pm

I appreciate the effort that goes into making things (as a project manager and engineer), so the price is not a big issue for me.

The issue for me is this tying of the library to a single Kronos, which I can also understand to prevent piracy, but not being able to transfer a library license from one machine to another (e.g. if I wanted to sell my X and get a 2, or a Kronos with a larger keyboard) is sheer lunacy, unless you can factor in the cost of the libraries into the sale and buyers were willing to pay extra for your library choices (which might not interest them).

I purchased Sharp's Kronos assault (and a good library it is too) before I realised this inability to transfer licenses, which makes me reluctant to purchase future libraries that are tied to the machine.

I do wish Korg would listen on that aspect.

Bertotti · Post by **Bertotti** » Fri Jan 16, 2015 5:17 pm

Yea I wish Shaprs ex were available through Irish Acts instead of Korg. I am certain he would honor people moving on to new or larger version of the Kronos keyboard provided it was deleted and not left in when the keyboard is sold to someone else who didn't pay for it.

jimknopf · Post by **jimknopf** » Fri Jan 16, 2015 5:25 pm

Guys, no reason to feel attacked and defend your prices. You should just get a second look at user perspectives, that's all. And Sharp and Antony: aren't you two aware, that some of the user criticism in this thread might not concern some of the jobs which you have done in the first place (apart from offering smaller content libraries)?

1. Concerning library content
@Antony
I bought your guitar library, despite originally only being after electric guitars. I use acoustic guitar patches only casually in what I do. Since both are programmed extremely well (with a lot of articulation stuff done, especially in Combis, getting the most of the Kronos samling engine), I finally accepted having to buy the whole package. But I would have preferred being able to buy only electric guitars anyways.

I fail to see how organizing smaller, more thematic libraries should cost double as much, as you claim. At least for the programs, it would be easy to split a library in OS 3 by just using "load required samples", wouldn't it? And even in cases where I had to pay let's say a 30% higher price for a small library with a certain sound I need, but could use only 20% of the thematic sounds of a library which includes other instruments/themes as well, I would still profit a lot from buying only what I really want and need.

I can only speak for myself: after having the main stuff I need covered (Korg's Funk Brass and the Guitars were really important for me), I will simply stop buying mixed bag libraries now! I just see no reason why anyone should enforce big mixed packs of sounds on me, while I can only make use of a fraction of it. Whoever offers stuff like that: I will just ignore it.

2. Concerning library quality
Not each of the many expensive libraries available meanwhile is sampled and programmed equally well. You name Piano sampling, Antony. I would call some of the many available piano sample libraries third class sounds, despite being sold at high prices, to name it as I look at it. I would never use them, neither in Kontakt nor in any workstation. They neither leave the impression of skillful sampling, nor of impressive pogramming: they rather sound outdated. No problem: nobody is forced to buy them. But to claim high quality, based on a lot of professional work, for all avaliable stuff in general, would not be realistic.

Similar for resampled hardware synth libraries: while there is some excellent stuff among the available packages, there is also a lot of stuff I do not at all regard as worth buying and spending a lot of money on. In fact I sometimes get faster, what I am after, if I do the job myself, programming a hardware synth like I need it, using sample tools like Sample Robot to get the raw samples in no time, and then spend some (not too much) time on making a halfway decent program of what I got.
So before I spend hundreds of bucks on these kinds of libraries, they really have to show a kind of quality level (both concerning the samples and the proghramming) which I could not reach and which gives me a good reason to buy.

3. Concerning the present limitation to one phsical Kronos device
Glad that I would at least be able to move my guitar library over to a new Kronos device if ever required. For the hundreds of dollars I spent on other Korg libraries this is not available so far. That's a STRONG argument versus buying anything more than absolutely necessary, unless you are really in need of it.

All in all, remember that I am one of those who never wanted good stuff for free or at ridiculously cheap prices. Still I think it won't hurt anybody to think about reasonable prices in connection with reasonable amounts and quality of library content.

Post by **Sharp** » Fri Jan 16, 2015 6:18 pm

Bertotti wrote:Yea I wish Shaprs ex were available through Irish Acts instead of Korg. I am certain he would honor people moving on to new or larger version of the Kronos keyboard provided it was deleted and not left in when the keyboard is sold to someone else who didn't pay for it.

I understand. I'm not a fan of seeing the libraries being locked into a KRONOS either, but I do appreciate the fact that it stops piracy as that's been a problem in the past with anything I've ever created.

That being said, I feel that if you buy one of my libraries and you own two KRONOS. In my opinion you should be able to install it on both, or into a new KRONOS if your upgrading. I will mention this again to KORG.

Assuming this may never changed though, what **IF** when purchasing one of my EXs libraries you also received a VST that emulated sound of the KRONOS running the EXs library. Bearing in mind how complex HD-1 is and wave sequencing, the emulations would never replace the KRONOS edition, but it would get you fairly close and you would at least have something you can keep forever.

Do you think that would make it more appealing, not at all, slightly, or a lot?

Regards
Sharp

Stratario · Post by **Stratario** » Fri Jan 16, 2015 6:43 pm

I don't understand why in EXs118, Istanbul Strings, of the about 19 multi-samples that are there, a good 40% of them are Chinese Erhu samples. If KApro thinks that they sound like Turkish kemanche, they absolutely do not sound anything like Turkish kemanche.

Fred

SanderXpander · Post by **SanderXpander** » Fri Jan 16, 2015 7:22 pm

The reason I find a library expensive has nothing to do with the amount of work a programmer/sampler has put into it and everything to do with what's available in competition and how much use I'd get out of it. It should by no means be seen as reflection on my respect for the seller's work. I'm simply not going to spend 250 on a library that I will only use a few sounds from and can only use on this one particular Kronos.

NuSkoolTone · Post by **NuSkoolTone** » Fri Jan 16, 2015 8:11 pm

AntonySharmman wrote:Just a small remark for the "few programs EXs development" !

Who among you has ever invested on sampling a famous Grand piano ? or has spent thousands of dollars or any , in renting/studios
and gear to achieve that ?
Copying or pirating or re-sampling others work makes you experts of how much a 4 Kronos programs piano in Korg's store should cost ?
Fancy programming can never compete a crystal clear sampling project , so see the obvious and not just chatting and speculating !
This reference is made to honor all pure sound developers of Korg's store !

Anthony, I have not sampled a grand piano though I DO have a sax session arranged with a player I need to compensate which I plan to sample when schedule allows. I've spent thousands in the studio and in my own home probably have close to $100k of gear and have been a study of the recording arts for over 25 years.

I take offense to your use of the word "pirating" for libraries we have PURCHASED and own. Whether any fall under fair use is a debate for another discussion, however the point is we did not get them for FREE as a benchmark to judge pricing. What DOES however is other libraries which in many cases are superior in every way for the same price or CHEAPER. A lot of libraries for sale also sound OLD and re-worked from other projects. No problem, but don't ask $250 for it!

Many of us are quite aware the difference between sampled material and programming and have done this and other related work. It's not just speculation and chatting, there are real measurements to go by. Without getting any more personal or adding unnecessary criticism, let's just say I've tried demos and have listened to audio examples of available libraries and they're overpriced. They're either short on quality or content, or in one case too RAM hungry (Not sure what the cause/solution is there though). There are even a few libraries I'm surprised Korg even approved to put on sale as they are atrocious sounding based on the audio examples!

If I'm paying these prices for libraries, I expect content equivalent to commercial libraries out there. Not just quality, but quantity. I can load different KSCs and manage them myself. The simple convenience of plug and play is not enough and not a reasonable excuse for libraries with amateur sounding samples, incomplete programming, or literally a handful of sounds IMO.

I'll apologize in advance, if that sounds terse. Though for this Kronos user THESE are the reasons why I've only bought a couple of libraries to date. Before we even touch the portability issue.

Banquet · Post by **Banquet** » Fri Jan 16, 2015 8:51 pm

For me, I can't buy any more libraries because my Kronos is full. Maddeningly though, the HD isn't full, but the free slots to load sounds into are. This just seems crazy to me as surely it's a completely unnecessary limit? There have been some great software updates for Kronos, why have non addressed this limit?

Soon after buying the Kronos I bought Karo Symphonic, Sharps Voices and Guitar libraries, and 1 Qui Robinez library and despite still having 9-10 gig free - I have no more slots!

So, instead I have bought a few VST's for Cubase including Omnisphere, Zebra2, BlueII, Padshop Pro, GrooveAgents, Steinberg Symphonic, etc, but it seems like such a silly thing to limit the Kronos to this number of patches.

Are they too expensive? Perhaps a little - I would like to get Sharp's atmospheres as I really like his other two libraries, but Padshop gives me great pads too, at less cost, but I would probably pickup some of these sounds if I was able.

AntonySharmman · Post by **AntonySharmman** » Fri Jan 16, 2015 9:52 pm

NuSkoolTone wrote:I take offense to your use of the word "pirating" for libraries we have PURCHASED and own

- The word "pirating" is for hacking latest locked VST libraries and only "thieves" can feel offended
the rest categories are copying or resampling , well known to all of you ...
- All advanced users know exactly what I'm talking about so I always analyze details for the rest users.
- Transferring limit is rational not only because of piracy but because of difficulty for anyone (except Korg) to certify
your ownership of a second or a new Kronos , I can provide this feature for forum members for a brand new keyboard
mainly because ID is involved and since I set the rules.
- As concerned to my "Suite" philosophy of group of instruments, I've already explained in past that
I spliced my solid library in 10 parts in order users have choices , but you won't see more than 10 choices ...
Sorry but I do not distribute sounds like a supermarket !
Shortly you will conceive my pack concept when you'll ran out of Ram with no essentials in your Kronos !!!
The worst thing for a Kronos user is to uninstall paid libraries , some users among us

already know that !

As an epilogue I definitely don't feel attacked or defend my prices as jimknopf wrote , I don't even negotiate this
so if you need only two sounds or you feel that a "Suite" is expensive then buy a cheaper or do it by yourself !

Thanks for reading

Stratario · Post by **Stratario** » Fri Jan 16, 2015 9:54 pm

Banquet wrote:For me, I can't buy any more libraries because my Kronos is full. Maddeningly though, the HD isn't full, but the free slots to load sounds into are. This just seems crazy to me as surely it's a completely unnecessary limit? There have been some great software updates for Kronos, why have non addressed this limit?

Soon after buying the Kronos I bought Karo Symphonic, Sharps Voices and Guitar libraries, and 1 Qui Robinez library and despite still having 9-10 gig free - I have no more slots!

So, instead I have bought a few VST's for Cubase including Omnisphere, Zebra2, BlueII, Padshop Pro, GrooveAgents, Steinberg Symphonic, etc, but it seems like such a silly thing to limit the Kronos to this number of patches.

Are they too expensive? Perhaps a little - I would like to get Sharp's atmospheres as I really like his other two libraries, but Padshop gives me great pads too, at less cost, but I would probably pickup some of these sounds if I was able.

For the time being maybe you should make two, or more, different PCG files with different sets of sounds that can use the same KSC. So you can load various sets of sounds quickly.

amosaic · Post by **amosaic** » Fri Jan 16, 2015 10:52 pm

I have always been searching for an excellent ambient textures and drum loops/drum sounds library....like moving textures and ambient fullness...anyone point me in a good direction? thank you.

Bertotti · Post by **Bertotti** » Fri Jan 16, 2015 10:58 pm

Sharp in a nutshell yes. I would definitely go anything choir/vocal if it worked in Logix Pro X. Being compatible with Kronos isn't a must since I would use it to control logic anyway.

jimknopf · Post by **jimknopf** » Fri Jan 16, 2015 11:27 pm

AntonySharmman wrote:Shortly you will conceive my pack concept when you'll ran out of Ram with no essentials in your Kronos !!!

No idea what you refer to: could you explain?

AntonySharmman wrote:The worst thing for a Kronos user is to uninstall paid libraries , some users among us already know that !

Same: could you please help me to understand what you mean?

AntonySharmman wrote: As an epilogue I definitely don't feel attacked or defend my prices as jimknopf wrote , I don't even negotiate this
so if you need only two sounds or you feel that a "Suite" is expensive then buy a cheaper or do it by yourself !

I wasn't sure about the tone: fine that you didn't feel attacked.

It's all fine as it is: sellers define their policy and prices (and are of course entitled to ignore debated user perspectives), and users decide what is of interest for them (and are of course entitled to ignore libraries).

No hard feelings involved