Cables

SanderXpander · Post by **SanderXpander** » Sat May 16, 2015 9:34 pm

I see your point for the distinction. Honestly, there has been a lot more confusion about this than I ever thought possible. Wording it the way you do does prevent a lot of that. It's just that when I'm talking with my sound guy on stage and I'm asking him for a cable, or the other way around, we regularly exchange the phrase "balanced or unbalanced?"
Which makes perfect sense in context, it'd be really roundabout to talk about a dual or triple core cable, or "a cable suited for balanced connections".

awyatt1 · Post by **awyatt1** » Sat May 16, 2015 10:29 pm

BruceG...I also wonder about some of the people who sell cables and stuff. Back when I had my Trinity Pro X (which has unbalanced outputs), I bought a digital recorder and went to the local music store to buy cables. I won't say the name of the store, but it rhymes with "sitar splinter". I told him I wanted to hook my Trinity up to my recorder and I wanted to connect in stereo. He told me in order to keep the noise down, I should get a balanced cable. Also, since balanced cable=stereo cable that was the only cable I would need. He didn't tell me I needed two cables for stereo, nor did he tell me I could get stereo by using 2 regular instrument cables. So, when I connected my Trinity and recorder using my "balanced/stereo" cable I couldn't figure out why my connection was unbalanced and in mono.

SanderXpander...I also refer to cables as balanced or unbalanced when talking to someone that I know understands what I mean. I try to avoid it when talking with someone who may not understand because I know how confusing it was for me when I first started out. But you are right. It would sound rather ridiculous to ask the sound guy to hand you the "triple core, capable of carrying a balanced signal or stereo signal, but not both at the same time" cable.

Ottawa58 · Post by **Ottawa58** » Sun May 17, 2015 2:00 pm

When I was purchasing my balanced cables for Kronos to Yamaha HS8, I did some research on the internet, watched a couple of youtubes, and then went to our local shop, 'Long and McQuade' to purchase them. The young man in the audio section knew exactly what he was talking about (based on my prior research) and was very helpful. He helped me select the right ones.

This youtube was pretty good:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQtMFsw_3Hg

BruceG · Post by **BruceG** » Sun May 17, 2015 4:53 pm

SanderXpander - this is a reply I received from one supplier today

"Whether the cable is used as TRS balanced mono or a single stereo cable depends 100% on the equipment connector type. The cables are wired the same regardless so as long as the inputs and outputs you connect to are definitely TRS balanced then the cable will be correct for the job."

That word "stereo" is used again. Is this right as he refers to the cable which can be balanced mono or a "single" stereo cable ? (dependent on equipment connector type on which there seems to be general agreement)

SanderXpander · Post by **SanderXpander** » Sun May 17, 2015 5:05 pm

Yes, that's exactly what awyatt1 and I were discussing.

BruceG · Post by **BruceG** » Sun May 17, 2015 8:00 pm

But do you think this is right? This is the item he's selling that I thought would be suitable

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Rapid-Cables-Ba ... KFBZ7PD7NY

awyatt1 · Post by **awyatt1** » Mon May 18, 2015 12:13 pm

Yes, those are the cables you want. Those cables are capable of carrying a balanced mono signal (which is what you want them for in your situation) or an unbalanced stereo signal (so they could also be used to carry the stereo signal from a headphone jack to your headphones, for example). That's why they are often referred to as balanced stereo cables and why I don't like to call them that. It just depends on the application you are using them for. If the cable is carrying a balanced signal it is not stereo, and if the cable is carrying a stereo signal it is not balanced.

BruceG · Post by **BruceG** » Mon May 18, 2015 12:18 pm

Many thanks awyatt1 it's good to know I'll be ordering the correct item.

phattbuzz · Post by **phattbuzz** » Mon May 18, 2015 3:28 pm

SanderXpander wrote:If it helps, there is no such thing as a cable that carries a balanced AND stereo signal. If you've been following the previous explanations, such a cable would have to carry a + and a - for each side of the stereo spectrum and at least one ground, making it 5 leads inside a single cable and also a five pronged/holed/sleeved connector.

Just remember that both "balanced" and "stereo" require three leads. Same cable, just depends on the application.

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/CSS202
I have a couple of balanced stereo cables such as the one above.

BruceG · Post by **BruceG** » Mon May 18, 2015 3:34 pm

Thanks phattbuzz, I hope the ones I've ordered in the UK will be as good.

SanderXpander · Post by **SanderXpander** » Mon May 18, 2015 4:01 pm

phattbuzz wrote:
SanderXpander wrote:If it helps, there is no such thing as a cable that carries a balanced AND stereo signal. If you've been following the previous explanations, such a cable would have to carry a + and a - for each side of the stereo spectrum and at least one ground, making it 5 leads inside a single cable and also a five pronged/holed/sleeved connector.

Just remember that both "balanced" and "stereo" require three leads. Same cable, just depends on the application.
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/CSS202
I have a couple of balanced stereo cables such as the one above.

Technically those are balanced dual mono cables.

NuSkoolTone · Post by **NuSkoolTone** » Mon May 18, 2015 8:46 pm

Personally I don't see why all the confusion. TRS on each end per output = balanced cable. With the assumption the device your sending it to accepts a balanced connection preferably of the same form factor. If you run TRS to XLR, you can skip the DI box in most cases. Unless you really need the transformer isolation.

That said, I roll my own (I do full snakes to cut down on the spaghetti) and have moved to full TRS on the Kronos. As a (Somewhat unexpected) bonus, it appears when running the Kronos balanced the output is also HOTTER. Meaning less gain needed and less noise. Highly recommended!

SanderXpander · Post by **SanderXpander** » Mon May 18, 2015 9:18 pm

Seeing as the standard level for unbalanced is -10dB and the one for balanced is +4db I don't find that surprising at all

A DI is still a good option, also for ground lifting.

awyatt1 · Post by **awyatt1** » Mon May 18, 2015 10:09 pm

OK, one more comment and I will shut up on the subject. The confusion comes from calling the TRS-TRS cable a balanced cable. If you use a TRS-TRS cable to connect a balanced output/balanced input you will have a balanced connection. If either your output or your input is not balanced and you connect with the exact same TRS-TRS cable, you will have an unbalanced connection. The cable wasn't balanced and all of a sudden magically morphed into an unbalanced cable. The cable remained exactly the same. Unless both your output and input are balanced, the TRS-TRS cable used to connect them is no more balanced than a TS-TS cable. That's where the confusion comes in.

NuSkoolTone · Post by **NuSkoolTone** » Tue May 19, 2015 6:52 pm

SanderXpander wrote:Seeing as the standard level for unbalanced is -10dB and the one for balanced is +4db I don't find that surprising at all
A DI is still a good option, also for ground lifting.

Indeed. Though I find a lot of gear doesn't adhere to this standard. So when it does, a pleasant surprise.

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Cables

Balanced