Improving CX3 sound

[NuSkoolTone]

Unless I missed it, would love to see a parameter for a more shallow trigger parameter for CX3. Could be especially useful with the weighted keybed IMO.

[jerrythek]

Unless I missed it, would love to see a parameter for a more shallow trigger parameter for CX3. Could be especially useful with the weighted keybed IMO.

+1 - I forgot about that. It's not only useful for weighted action - there's something special about "slapping/spanking" the keys that only feels right with the shallow trigger. If I go out and play classic/rock/blues jams or gigs, I will sometimes bring out the stand-alone CX3 for that very reason.

Good point.

Jerry

[BillW]

Do you mean the KBR - 3D? I haven't tried the KBR - 3D but I don't like any of the other Motion sound stuff that I have tried.. the pro3x or the pro-145 both suck, when compared to a real leslie (sorry don't mean to offend anyone).. neither do I like the 2101. Maybe the KBR-3D is better, but I can't say..

However, I can say that the ventilator is fabulous.. slick, small, light, and no moving parts to break, and the sound through a good monitor system is outstanding! I would much prefer a Ventilator pedal and either one or two QSC monitors (one if you normally go through the FOH system, or 2 if your sound comes live off the stage)!

Just my opinion of course, but I've been through a lot of different amps/leslies, and leslie pedals over the years.. I've been using the Vent and 2 QSC K10's for ever since the Ventilator came out and it's spectacular!

+1

[CaptLego]

The internal amp overdrive parameter is tied into the expression pedal, and the expression knob found on the Tone Adjust Page (Main Screen - Control Surface - Tone Adjust Tab). So if you play the CX3 without using a pedal it will sound like you've always got the pedal at a set level, which may be too much for you. The first thing you should try is going to the Tone Adjust and dialing down the expression value some. If your sound gets too quiet you can bring up the Master Volume for that Program. Or better yet, start using an Expression Pedal!



Still too much overdrive? Then you need to go into the Amp Page itself and dial down the Amp Gain, and then to compensate for the drop in volume, bring up the Output Level (Main Output) lower on the page.

Try these two ideas and let me know if they help you "tame" some of the presets you'd like to use.



Regards,

Jerry

Thanks Jerry!
With your guidance and some additional poking around, I'm starting to get a handle on this beast. I now have a baseline CX3 sound I like, and at least a clue on how to tweak it from there to modify it for other sounds.

[jerrythek]

Thanks Jerry!
With your guidance and some additional poking around, I'm starting to get a handle on this beast. I now have a baseline CX3 sound I like, and at least a clue on how to tweak it from there to modify it for other sounds.

Cool!

Jerry

[Dniss]

I have to admit that I'm struggling a bit with the CX3 emulation.. first of all I should point out that I am a Hammond B3 player first, and I've had numerous real hammonds and leslies over the years, and I currently own a NORD C2 that I use for gigging.. Despite the NORD having a pretty good leslie sim, I use the Ventilator and a pair of QSC K10's. I also owned a Korg Digital BX3 for several years, which I mostly used with a real 147 leslie, so I am very familiar with the BX3 parameters, and the sound.

So why am I struggling.. first of all the CX3 programs that come with the Kronos are AWFUL, and quite frankly despite the Kronos being a pretty good all in one keyboard, I am embarrased to suggest or recommend the Kronos to any of my organ pals, because of the poor quality of the CX3 programs. If I had to describe the factory CX3 programs in one sentence it would be... "Every non-Hammond organ players idea of what a hammond sounds like rather than what a real Hammond sounds like". I don't know how else to describe it, the sounds are all overly bright, or overly distorted, or there's too much chorus, and there is something wrong with almost every factory CX3 program that I listen too..

A friend, suggested that I take one factory program and use it as a starting point to build myself a good sounding organ, and the program he suggested was:

Iternal A-054: CX3 ORGAN 888 SW1

This actually did turn out to be a good starting point, because out of all the awful factory programs it's actually one of the programs that really does sound close to a real B3. So I took it apart and started playing with it and tweaking it to my liking, and before you know it I actually did have a pretty good sounding hammond organ.

That said, I am very fussy about my hammond sound, and I have to say that I'm not done tweaking it yet. Here are the things that I'm still struggling with:

1. While the leslie sim isn't bad, but it's not up to par with the current leslie standard (the Ventilator), and while there are a lot of tweakable parameters I have not yet been able to get it to sound as good.

2. The percussion isn't quite right.. it sounds too digital, and it's not quite woody enough. I have a good quality recording of the percussion in my original BX3 playing Green Eyed Lady by Sugarloaf which has some GREAT percussion organ in it.. and unfortunately neither the Kronos CX3 or the original digital BX3 quite get it.

3. I am struggling to find a good setting for the Chorus/Vibrato, and I'm not sure that I completely understand the available parameters, but I continuing to play with this to try and get it right (C/V is very much a matter of taste and different organ players have very different opinons on what sounds good).

4. The keyboard scaling and EQ is causing me a great deal of trouble. When I get the mid octaves sounding good, the top octave is weak and doesn't scream, when I get the top octave sounding good the percussion doesn't sound good.. I just can't get the organ to sound good right across the keyboard.

5. Others have complained about the Overdrive, and I have to chime in here as well.. it sounds a little artificial/digital to me, and like a number of other clones I have played there is a lack of subtlety to it.. between no overdrive and too much overdrive there is not enough space to subtely add OD.

All that said, I am pretty fussy, but I tweaked the CX3 engine enough to have a pretty good sound, that is quite usable, HOWEVER, I am using a Ventilator pedal, because it gives me both a GREAT leslie sim AND it solves the problem of the digital sounding Overdrive.. (the Ventilator has fantastic warm realistic overdrive).. However, I'm still not happy with the sound because while it's nice and warm in the middle octaves it's just NOT screaming in the top octave the way a real Hammond would. So I'm still working on it and I'll be doing more tweaking.

I think that the Kronos is very close to being the BEST all-in-one keyboard out there, and one of the reasons is the fact that it has all the sounds and characteristics of a top quality workstation AND it has the CX3 engine. Unfortunately, wven with a few tweaks, the CX3 engine isn't quite up to par with the current crop of clone technology (new organs like the Crumar Mojo, Hammond SK series, NORD C2D/Electro 4D etc).. To be a real contender as a true "all-in-one" keyboard, the CX3 engine does need to be improved. For future CX3 upgrades we need a better rotary sim, update the Chorus/Vibrato, separate tone/colour control over the Percussion, warmer more realistic overdrive, and some better options for EQ scaling across the keyboard.

If we can do that, this CX3 engine will kill.

Excellent comment! I feel exactly the same way. I guess it's all a question of one's personal experience with a real B-3, and/or, the need to have a sound as close as possible.

I'm saving to get the XK3c which IMHO, is the way to go if you need real Hammond feel and sound.

From the reviews I've read, going from workstation/pluggins (any emulation) to the actual XK3 is a real eye opener and sounds much better by a long shot.

[X-Trade]

Unless I missed it, would love to see a parameter for a more shallow trigger parameter for CX3. Could be especially useful with the weighted keybed IMO.

I think I remember during OASYS development they announced that CX3 now responded to the first trigger contacts rather than waiting for the second contact. Could be wrong on that but I thought it was already a feature.

[rrricky rrrecordo]

I remember reading about the original Ibanez tube screamer being incorporated into the G4, and had mentioned that in a post here long ago. danatkorg as I recall responded that this was not the case, which makes sense if the G4 is an exact copy of the leslie sim in the Trinity. Can't see such an analog circuit in an otherwise digital workstation of that era myself unless Korg "modeled" it, although some subsequent Tritons incorporated a proper tube circuit. Nonetheless, a great pedal with a nice warm distortion that went from mild to wild, and it's the same great effect in the Trinity. Gave my G4 to a kid who fell in love with it. It even made DX7 organs scream. I miss it, maybe I'll find another eventually.

I played a gig last summer where we had two keyboard players - the other guy had just bought a ventilator and his Yamaha S-80 organ patches sounded absolutely amazing running through it.

[jerrythek]

I think I remember during OASYS development they announced that CX3 now responded to the first trigger contacts rather than waiting for the second contact. Could be wrong on that but I thought it was already a feature.

Nope, sorry. Wish it were true.

Regards,

Jerry

[jeremykeys]

I would really like to check out a Ventilator pedal one of these days. I've also heard about another new Leslie type effect pedal. Think it might have been a Mesa Boogie pedal but I'm probably very wrong. I have to wonder though just how worth it ti is since I'm running in mono right now and the P.A. is also in mono.
I have found that using the expression pedal definitely helps as well as using the controls to adjust various parameters. If you check out the "control panel" you'll see what I mean. I haven't yet tried adjusting the eq but that is definitely the next step. Thank you to whoever suggested that. I keep forgetting about that function.

[jg::]

To the various people who are tweaking things - I'd love to check out a program or two that you're reasonably happy with, if you don't mind sharing....

jg::

[kshacklett]

Listen to me play ELP on my stock CX3 with no additional processing of any kind and tell me that the C3 emulation is weak. (the lower keyboard plays the lower CX3 sound):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIqQICno ... ature=plcp

In my Kronos I couldn't get the CX3 to sound right until I turned off its speaker simulation.

[mathieumaes]

Hello,
it is a fact that CX3 is the weak point
of kronos... other engines are great,

I totally disagree. I like the CX-3 a lot. I've been using the Hammond XM-1, but since I replaced it with the Kronos CX-3, my band actually hears hammond organs!

I also disagree that other engines are great. I really dislike the sounds that STR-1 produces. None of the harps, guitars and clavs do it for me, they all sound very unrealistic.

STR-1 is probably the only engine that I'll never use.

[michelkeijzers]

Hello,
it is a fact that CX3 is the weak point
of kronos... other engines are great,

I totally disagree. I like the CX-3 a lot. I've been using the Hammond XM-1, but since I replaced it with the Kronos CX-3, my band actually hears hammond organs!

I also disagree that other engines are great. I really dislike the sounds that STR-1 produces. None of the harps, guitars and clavs do it for me, they all sound very unrealistic.

STR-1 is probably the only engine that I'll never use.

I think the acoustic guitar sound is quite ok, the electric guitar sounds are not my type (but never heard good ones).

I don't mind much, since our band has 1 guitarist (and soon two I hope).

[DoubleM]

Since I downloaded the Organimation library and after some tweaking these programs I found a decent Hammond/CX-3 sound for me. Saved a lot of time using the Organimation progs as a starting point. I´m pretty satisfied with the CX-3 and replaced my Nord Electro 3.

My problems is:

When using the tweaked organs in a combi/split, they loose gain/volume or whatever...although all volumes are at 127!
A 1:1 comparison between organ program and same organ in combi by ears shows a significant volume difference. What´s the reason for that?