M50's MSB/LSB numbers for selecting Combis and Programs?

[BillW]

I want to be able to select programs and combis on the M50 from my Fantom. I just need the MSB/LSB numbers for the M50's combi and program banks. I searched the PDF manuals and it doesn't appear to be there. Anybody know the answer?

[jerryv]

I don't know whether this will help or not... but I'm a computer geek and understand what LSB and MSB mean in that world, and it's probably the same meaning in this case.

MSB and LSB can mean either Most Significant Bit/Least Significant Bit OR
Most Significant BYTE and Least Significant BYTE. I'm assuming we're talking about bytes here, since single bits would be pretty useless in selecting programs or combis..

A BYTE (8 bits) can hold a value between 0 and 255. All 8 bits OFF is 0, and all 8 bits ON is 255. So a byte cannot hold a very large number.

When you use 2 bytes to represent a number, you have 16 bits and can hold a value from 0 to 65535.

In such a 16-bit number, the MSB (most significant byte) is the upper 8 bits of the number, and the LSB is the lower 8 bits of the number.

You can DIVIDE a number by 256 to get the MSB (discard any decimal .. whole number only). You can MOD by 256 to get the LSB.

For instance .. for the number 400. Use the Windows scientific calculator.

Divide 400 by 256 and get 1.5625 .. discard the decimal portion, the MSB is 1.

Now try 400 Mod 256 .. the result is 144 ... the LSB is 144

You can also do it on paper, using long division ...

Divide 256 into 400. It goes 1 time, with a remainder of 144. The MSB is 1, the LSB is 144.

Hope this helps ..

[X-Trade]

That's a good explanation of MSB and LSB.

But in this case, bill simply needs to use the bank MSB & LSB used for the M50's program and combi banks.

This should be in the Parameter Guide or MIDI Implementation.

[michelkeijzers]

You might want to check the MIDI exclusive documents.

I think they can be downloaded from Korg support site from the UK (www.korg.co.uk), then go to support. If the M50 doesn't have the files, get some others because it works (approximately) the same for other Korg models.

[BillW]

I don't know whether this will help or not... but I'm a computer geek and understand what LSB and MSB mean in that world, and it's probably the same meaning in this case.

MSB and LSB can mean either Most Significant Bit/Least Significant Bit OR
Most Significant BYTE and Least Significant BYTE. I'm assuming we're talking about bytes here, since single bits would be pretty useless in selecting programs or combis..

A BYTE (8 bits) can hold a value between 0 and 255. All 8 bits OFF is 0, and all 8 bits ON is 255. So a byte cannot hold a very large number.

When you use 2 bytes to represent a number, you have 16 bits and can hold a value from 0 to 65535.

In such a 16-bit number, the MSB (most significant byte) is the upper 8 bits of the number, and the LSB is the lower 8 bits of the number.

You can DIVIDE a number by 256 to get the MSB (discard any decimal .. whole number only). You can MOD by 256 to get the LSB.

For instance .. for the number 400. Use the Windows scientific calculator.

Divide 400 by 256 and get 1.5625 .. discard the decimal portion, the MSB is 1.

Now try 400 Mod 256 .. the result is 144 ... the LSB is 144

You can also do it on paper, using long division ...

Divide 256 into 400. It goes 1 time, with a remainder of 144. The MSB is 1, the LSB is 144.

Hope this helps ..

LOL...yeah, that's what those acronyms mean but I need the values for the M50. Thanks anyway!

[BillW]

You might want to check the MIDI exclusive documents.

I think they can be downloaded from Korg support site from the UK (www.korg.co.uk), then go to support. If the M50 doesn't have the files, get some others because it works (approximately) the same for other Korg models.

I will look again, but I don't remember seeing them in there.

[michelkeijzers]

See http://www.korg.com/Product.aspx?pd=413
Then look for M50 MIDI System Exclusive for a detailed specification of all the MIDI communication messages.

(sorry thought it was at co.uk).

[Yatrix]

BillW,
In order to select any item from any bank you need to know how to program Fantom to send pack of Hex messages of that kind:

Byte1 Byte2 Byte3
Bn 00 mm = Bank Select(MSB) BANK keys, Prog/Combi change
Bn 20 bb = Bank Select(LSB) BANK keys, Prog/Combi change
Cn pp -- = Program Change ( Prog/Combi change

Where:
B = starting symbol for Bank change message
n = number of chanell from 0 to 15 (to be sent in HEX see refs below)
Example: BA = bank number 9 (in human understanding that will be bank 10 normally used as drum track)

00 or 20 - leave it as shown above. These are functions.

mm = type of bank: standard or GM or GMdrumkit (to be sent in HEX see refs below)
bb = bank index (to be sent in HEX see refs below)
pp = program number from 0 to 127 (to be sent in HEX see refs below)

Bank Types (mm) and Indexes (bb) are as follows:
A = 00 00
B = 00 01
C = 00 02
D = 00 03 (note: for M50 combies only banks ABCD are valid)
E = 00 04
GM= 79 00
g1 = 79 01
g2 = 79 02
g3 = 79 03
g4 = 79 04
g5 = 79 05
g6 = 79 06
g7 = 79 07
g8 = 79 08
g9 = 79 09
gd = 78 00

Note:
You can't select play mode (Combi or Program) with the help of this messages.
You need to select mode manualy on M50.
Or you need to know how to sent long sysex message (Mode change messages) from external device.
No sure Fantom can be programmed for this.

Dec to Hex reference:
0 00
1 01
2 02
3 03
4 04
5 05
6 06
7 07
8 08
9 09
10 0A
11 0B
12 0C
13 0D
14 0E
15 0F
16 10
17 11
18 12
19 13
20 14
21 15
22 16
23 17
24 18
25 19
26 1A
27 1B
28 1C
29 1D
30 1E
31 1F
32 20
33 21
34 22
35 23
36 24
37 25
38 26
39 27
40 28
41 29
42 2A
43 2B
44 2C
45 2D
46 2E
47 2F
48 30
49 31
50 32
51 33
52 34
53 35
54 36
55 37
56 38
57 39
58 3A
59 3B
60 3C
61 3D
62 3E
63 3F
64 40
65 41
66 42
67 43
68 44
69 45
70 46
71 47
72 48
73 49
74 4A
75 4B
76 4C
77 4D
78 4E
79 4F
80 50
81 51
82 52
83 53
84 54
85 55
86 56
87 57
88 58
89 59
90 5A
91 5B
92 5C
93 5D
94 5E
95 5F
96 60
97 61
98 62
99 63
100 64
101 65
102 66
103 67
104 68
105 69
106 6A
107 6B
108 6C
109 6D
110 6E
111 6F
112 70
113 71
114 72
115 73
116 74
117 75
118 76
119 77
120 78
121 79
122 7A
123 7B
124 7C
125 7D
126 7E
127 7F

Hope helps

[BillW]

Hey guys, thanks for all the help, but you are WAY over complicating this. I would be setting up a bunch of combis for a live show and just selecting a combi from the Fantom.

The answer should be something as simple as:

msb=63 lsb=0 pgm=0 is combi bank A, combi 0
msb=63 lsb=0 pgm=1 is combi bank A, combi 1
etc.

msb=63 lsb=1 pgm=0 is combi bank B, combi 0
etc..

I used to do this with my M3M from the Fantom but I don't remember where I found that information.

[michelkeijzers]

If Yatrix is right msb = 0 and lsb = 0..4 for banks A-E and msb = 79 and lsb=0..9 for GM banks GM, 1-9.

[Yatrix]

Right, if Fantom allows to enter decimal values instead of Hex, then it is very simple:
msb = 0 and lsb = 0..4 for banks A-D and items 0..127

gm stuff not required , that is valid for programs only.

[BillW]

Right, if Fantom allows to enter decimal values instead of Hex, then it is very simple:
msb = 0 and lsb = 0..4 for banks A-D and items 0..127

gm stuff not required , that is valid for programs only.

Combis might be 32,0,x. I'll give this a shot. Thanks everyone!

[Scott]

msb = 0 and lsb = 0..4 for banks A-D and items 0..127

gm stuff not required , that is valid for programs only.

Combis might be 32,0,x. I'll give this a shot. Thanks everyone!

Did you get any of this to work?

I seem to remember reading that you couldn't switch from external selection or Programs to external selection of Combis with simple program change commands, you had to hit the Program or Combi button on the unit to do that (or possibly, do something with sysex).

[BillW]

msb = 0 and lsb = 0..4 for banks A-D and items 0..127

gm stuff not required , that is valid for programs only.

Combis might be 32,0,x. I'll give this a shot. Thanks everyone!

Did you get any of this to work?

I seem to remember reading that you couldn't switch from external selection or Programs to external selection of Combis with simple program change commands, you had to hit the Program or Combi button on the unit to do that (or possibly, do something with sysex).

I've been too busy to deal with this so it's not working yet. Sysex is probably the only way to switch modes (i.e., from program to combi), but that's not what I need to do. If I want to use a single program, I'll move it to a combi of its own. That eliminates the need to switch modes.

[BillW]

I looked at M50_MIDI.TXT again and found a chart which I've reformatted here:

*2 : Program/COMBI
Bank A 00,00, 00 - 7F
B 00,01, 00 - 7F
C 00,02, 00 - 7F
D 00,03, 00 - 7F
E 00,04, 00 - 7F
GM 79,00, 00 - 7F
g(1)-(9) 79,01-09, 00 - 7F
g(d) 78,00, 00 - 7F

These values are HEX, so 00=7F = 0-127 (for 128 programs/combis per bank).

Based on that information, it seems that I could program my Fantom G6 to switch M50 combis while playing live by sending the correct MSB/LSB/PGM change numbers. The M50's MSB/LSB values appear to be the same for programs and combis, so the first thing to do is power up the M50 and put it in combi mode. From that point, swtiching combis is as simple as sending the correct bank and combi #.

To select combi A-004, send 0,0,4
To select combi D-010, send 0,3,10

It looks like the response Yatrix provided had the answer in it (Thanks, Stas). I will try this out.

Bill