Why people buying thouse yamahas peac of junk?

chilly7 · Post by **chilly7** » Thu Jan 12, 2012 8:16 pm

http://www.motifator.com/index.php/foru ... ad/458314/

What i am going to tolk is most concerned Yamana keybord and department, because actualy thre are some exeptions
and Yamaha still makes some nice producs in other departments (Guitars, basses, Pianos and etc)
So speaking on the topic since i am really tied to speak about that Yamana uses so outdated technologies(software and hardware wise)
in their producs and so on, i think i am leaving this forum but I just wanted to double cheak if Yamana is realy started to delete
all topics which actualy show the truth of what Yamaha makes vs what possibilities and futures u can get for the similar price from the VST
worl from companies who atualy care what thay make.

Anyway since it is my thread i kindly ask awrybody do not use rude or offensive language in this thread. u can say what ever u want and
express ur thought but with out any rude behavor or offensive language...

Anyway So i give u some food for thought:

So can anybody tell me what Motif XF has now or had, or even entire Motif line had thrue it's history
unique or state of the art?
Non!
So why people buy thouse Yamanas $ 4000 plus pice of junk and in 2-4 years they buy again the same pice of junk with some minors twiks
but with double amount of pice of junk in it like Motif (XF vs XS vs ES vs Classic)?

This are just fwe ecsamples of VSts which i actualy familiar with but i am pretty shure there are many other devouted and talanted
companies which make producs with puting all their soul, knowladge and skills to make outstanding and musical products.

1)If u need powerful synth sounds get this http://www.spectrasonics.net/products/omnisphere.php
2)if u need piano get this http://www.imperfectsamples.com/website ... /index.php
3)if u need drums get this http://www.toontrack.com/products.asp?
4)if u need orcestral sounds get this http://www.vsl.co.at/en/211/442/607.vsl
5 if u need pipe organs get this http://www.hauptwerk.com/instruments/
6)If u need some FX let say reverbs http://www.lexiconpro.com/product.php?id=174
7) need guitar effects emulations get this http://www.ikmultimedia.com/amplitube/features/

and so on and on

Need sequensers get ProTools, Abelton and so on depend of ur needs....

So is threre comparison between $ 4000 plus Motif XF and Vsts?
No!
Even if u load in addition to Motif all sample libriers from
Dave Polich threre is still no comparison because
threre is simply nothing to compare, because in addition to spectacular sound quality u can get from Vsts
u get so many futures and thre are so many things u can actualy tweak there...

p.s. I know yamana is suppouse to come with a new so called "Workstation" this Winter Namm 2012 but not
because they admited thir mistakes with a previouse producs,not because they want to improve, but because thay simply want to stay
on the market because Yamana salles of Motif Xf now almost complitely below 0 because of Korg Kronos .I really don't care what Yamana
will bring this Winter Namm 2012 and i really don't care how thay will mimic their comptetitors this time in order to stay on the market.
Also Steinberg exept Cubase product thre is nothing else thay make worth buying, so i strickly advive if u see on the spot
something called "Yamana" or "Yamaha" don't buy it...

JPWC · Post by **JPWC** » Thu Jan 12, 2012 8:44 pm

Aren't you being a little offensive? The Yamaha Motif XF is a good sounding keyboard with many desireable features. Some believe the Motif excels with guitar sounds ( I tend to agree with this as I find myself play guitar sounds on the Motif almost exclusively.)

The Motif series is the keyboard behind many a hit.

Maybe you should chill.

sorry just had to say it, Chilly.

The biggest problem I've seen with the Motif series, it's long steep learning curve and dis-orgranized manual.

VST's are computer programs to run on computers, great tools for studio producers, Keyboards/synths are instruments designed for musicians who should have taken a few piano lessons and are ready to perform.

chilly7 · Post by **chilly7** » Fri Jan 13, 2012 3:05 am

JPWC wrote:Aren't you being a little offensive? The Yamaha Motif XF is a good sounding keyboard with many desireable features. Some believe the Motif excels with guitar sounds ( I tend to agree with this as I find myself play guitar sounds on the Motif almost exclusively.)

The Motif series is the keyboard behind many a hit.

Maybe you should chill. sorry just had to say it, Chilly.

I never used any VSTs for a real guitars emulations so i cannot advice u anything to try to compare but my question will be:

Did u actualy payed a real high quality acoustic guitar? I strongle believe u i did not!!!!

Because Motif Xf in terms of sound quality, realism of playing and twekable futures cannot compare to a Hight Quality Acoustic Guitar!!! and but not just guitars in awry other sound department( Pipe or electric organs, acoustic or electric pianos, drums, analog emulations synth sounds, drums and so on and on) and Motif XF is very poor compare to high quality real things or some high quality VSTs emulations in terms of sound quality, realism and tweekable futures.....

or are u going to prove me that Moif XF is as good compare to high quality VSTs in terms of sound quality, realism and tweekable futures?!

axxim · Post by **axxim** » Fri Jan 13, 2012 2:54 pm

A good musician will play good music on any instrument. I am not a musician but I can't understand this kind of discussions that keep blewing several forums! But now that we are on this...

Yammis, Korgs, Rolanders and what ever else rebellion troops raid and bomb the enemy forums, sometimes forgetting to take a look at their own signatures which could reveal them as traitors!

Holding their heavy weapons like VA-lasers, Analog-blasters, FM-cannons, PD-teasers, Aditive or Sudstractive desintegrators or even VST-psychodecapitators, they keep trying to establish and impose their own dictatory monophonicism over the others. Every day a new squadron or single fighter achieves a breakthru on the usual info channels and then the crowd exclam their names and their weapons trying and dreaming of being like them until a new hero is found.
At the same time, the market goes crazy and simple plastic-button-squarewave-piip-piip-makers are promoted as the Very Last one (VL-1) and non plus ultra weapon to be sold at incomprehensible prices, only because the crowd is far crazier and buy them. The day will come were the polyparaphonicpleurooscillatorvanalograndditivectorial megalogun attached to the iknowwhatwillmakeyoufamous predictive sensor interface will set everyone in trance and hip-hopping all the time "I have the best, I am the best, I am unique...I have the best, I am......"

Now back to this silly topic..

If an Instrument is so bad, why would the people buy it? What do you drive? Are the other cars crap? Or could it be that you can't afford or handle it and therefore it is crap? If there only were one taste for all, wouldn't all have wanted to marry your girl/boyfriend?

Why compare a guitar with a synth? Play both for what they are to get the best. Would you employ a lawyer for building a house only because he is good in emulating an architekt?

And the most important of all: simply enjoy what you have and can get and let the others do the same.

Yes I think JPWC is right... just chill.

michelkeijzers · Post by **michelkeijzers** » Fri Jan 13, 2012 4:10 pm

I could say I am a Korg fan, since I have five of them and not another brand.

However, I will never say a Yamaha or Roland or whatever is bad or sounds bad.

Of course there are reasons I buy a Korg instead of other brands, which mainly have to do with that I am used to Korgs so the learning curve is low and their samples/sounds are fresh.

But I can understand that somebody buys the newest Yamaha if he is used to that, or just to have something different.

About musicians: a good musician can even play a song on a $50 keyboard and still sounding better than a $3000 Kronos played by someone who barely knows what a scale is.

Also everybody's taste is different ... for example, I never got many problems with previous Korg model's piano, but some do. I'm not a pianist, maybe that 'helps'. I also think the guitars of the Kronos could be better but I also was not fond of the Yamaha's ones. Probably because I play in a band with real guitarists.

chilly7 · Post by **chilly7** » Fri Jan 13, 2012 8:17 pm

Yes, I total agree with that statment that a good musician will play better on a bad eqipment then a bad musicians on agood equipment.

But what about that!

We have 2 equaly good musicians

1)One has bad eqipment (like Yamaha Motif XF fully loaded)
2)Another has powerful computer or Production Stations like (OpenLabs, Music Computing or Lionstracs) loaded with very good VSTs

Who is going to win?

I think number two is going to win!!!!

p.s.
but don't worry, number two musician will land money to number one musicians, so he will be able to buy a good equipmentand and then retern money in a year to number two musician after he will sale his first Audio Dvd with a great succes, so this is the end of fary tale

michelkeijzers · Post by **michelkeijzers** » Fri Jan 13, 2012 11:10 pm

I consider both as good equipment, but that's my opinion.

Anyhow, since most audience cannot hear the different between a decent or a very expensive synth (soft synth or hard synth), it will not be dependent on the synths used, but on the type of music, advertisement and other elements.

If the 'judge' is a musician it will be dependent on taste probably, lots of people like the Motif XF, some don't just as some will like OPenLabs or not.

chilly7 · Post by **chilly7** » Sat Jan 14, 2012 12:45 am

michelkeijzers wrote:I consider both as good equipment, but that's my opinion.

Anyhow, since most audience cannot hear the different between a decent or a very expensive synth (soft synth or hard synth), it will not be dependent on the synths used, but on the type of music, advertisement and other elements.

If the 'judge' is a musician it will be dependent on taste probably, lots of people like the Motif XF, some don't just as some will like OPenLabs or not.

I think it is simpli no true.

Most people can tell the differnce in music.
U don't have t be musicians to like good music

The same comparison can be as the differnce between high quality organic food and geneticaly modified food.

If u eat all ur life geneticaly modified food u might be ok and not complain, but when u will try once a good high quality organic food, u most likely will say:
Wow, what is that?

the same will be

if u listened to music all ur life thrue i-phone u might be ok, but when u will try once so good studio monitors like Genelec 8250A or Sennheizers HD800 or STAX SR009 headpones and u will run it thrue Metric HAlo ULN 8 audionterface then most likely
u will say: wow what is that?
my 2 cents

michelkeijzers · Post by **michelkeijzers** » Sat Jan 14, 2012 1:29 am

chilly7 wrote:
michelkeijzers wrote:I consider both as good equipment, but that's my opinion.

Anyhow, since most audience cannot hear the different between a decent or a very expensive synth (soft synth or hard synth), it will not be dependent on the synths used, but on the type of music, advertisement and other elements.

If the 'judge' is a musician it will be dependent on taste probably, lots of people like the Motif XF, some don't just as some will like OPenLabs or not.
I think it is simpli no true.

Most people can tell the differnce in music.
U don't have t be musicians to like good music

The same comparison can be as the differnce between high quality organic food and geneticaly modified food.

If u eat all ur life geneticaly modified food u might be ok and not complain, but when u will try once a good high quality organic food, u most likely will say:
Wow, what is that?

the same will be

if u listened to music all ur life thrue i-phone u might be ok, but when u will try once so good studio monitors like Genelec 8250A or Sennheizers HD800 or STAX SR009 headpones and u will run it thrue Metric HAlo ULN 8 audionterface then most likely
u will say: wow what is that?
my 2 cents

Why do you think mediocre MP3s and Iphone music is good enough for most people (non musicians)? Because they don't care about that last bit of quality.

If you let them hear music made by a $2000 synth or a $4000 they probably will not notice. If it is a live band playing the difference will be even less.

Not that I dislike my audience for that reason: they come to have a good time and that good time does not come from the quality of a synth ... maybe they might hear 'some' difference, but probably not.

chilly7 · Post by **chilly7** » Sat Jan 14, 2012 4:22 am

michelkeijzers wrote:
chilly7 wrote:
michelkeijzers wrote:I consider both as good equipment, but that's my opinion.

Anyhow, since most audience cannot hear the different between a decent or a very expensive synth (soft synth or hard synth), it will not be dependent on the synths used, but on the type of music, advertisement and other elements.

If the 'judge' is a musician it will be dependent on taste probably, lots of people like the Motif XF, some don't just as some will like OPenLabs or not.
I think it is simpli no true.

Most people can tell the differnce in music.
U don't have t be musicians to like good music

The same comparison can be as the differnce between high quality organic food and geneticaly modified food.

If u eat all ur life geneticaly modified food u might be ok and not complain, but when u will try once a good high quality organic food, u most likely will say:
Wow, what is that?

the same will be

if u listened to music all ur life thrue i-phone u might be ok, but when u will try once so good studio monitors like Genelec 8250A or Sennheizers HD800 or STAX SR009 headpones and u will run it thrue Metric HAlo ULN 8 audionterface then most likely
u will say: wow what is that?
my 2 cents
Why do you think mediocre MP3s and Iphone music is good enough for most people (non musicians)? Because they don't care about that last bit of quality.

If you let them hear music made by a $2000 synth or a $4000 they probably will not notice. If it is a live band playing the difference will be even less.

Not that I dislike my audience for that reason: they come to have a good time and that good time does not come from the quality of a synth ... maybe they might hear 'some' difference, but probably not.

Well, i can speak from my own expiriense. I am more studio musician so i speand more in recording proces then on live shows and i have some friends and some of them were in my house and befor that thay were really happy with their music audio system at their houses, because most of them had some conventional 5.1 audio sytem at home which thay bought in the lockal shop for about 868 dollars, but all my friends that i invited in to my house and i gived them to listen to my Sennheizers HD 800 thrue my RME Fireface UFX interface they were blowed out by the sound thay hear. All of them after listening to my audio eqipment instantly wanted to get a loan to buy the same headphones and the same audiointerface.

But i even don't want to dissapoint them that there is even better equipment then i own myself and i have at home , because in the studio i work, thay have Metric Halo ULN 8 audio interface and Genelec 8250A monitors and some also top of the line monitors from PMC(don't remember the model name)....

JPWC · Post by **JPWC** » Sun Jan 22, 2012 8:00 pm

I am a keyboard player, and I need the experience of playing the keyboard live, while being able to reach for various controllers and other keyboards, at will. Computer VST's just don't provide this experience.

Good music is more than the tools used to produce it. A good artist can produce great music in their environment, regardless of the tools. Technical sound quality, which is subjective to the individual, is not the determining factor in musical appeal.

But don't get me wrong, high technical specifications are fun and interesting.

PS. computers are for watching DVD's and storing files. They are giant time sinks, that produce little results for the efforts. The biggest problem artistically is the lack of creative constraints, which gives limits for the the artist to work from, i.e. a set of rules, that once learned can be broken.

michelkeijzers · Post by **michelkeijzers** » Sun Jan 22, 2012 8:38 pm

chilly7 wrote:
michelkeijzers wrote:
chilly7 wrote: I think it is simpli no true.

Most people can tell the differnce in music.
U don't have t be musicians to like good music

The same comparison can be as the differnce between high quality organic food and geneticaly modified food.

If u eat all ur life geneticaly modified food u might be ok and not complain, but when u will try once a good high quality organic food, u most likely will say:
Wow, what is that?

the same will be

if u listened to music all ur life thrue i-phone u might be ok, but when u will try once so good studio monitors like Genelec 8250A or Sennheizers HD800 or STAX SR009 headpones and u will run it thrue Metric HAlo ULN 8 audionterface then most likely
u will say: wow what is that?
my 2 cents
Why do you think mediocre MP3s and Iphone music is good enough for most people (non musicians)? Because they don't care about that last bit of quality.

If you let them hear music made by a $2000 synth or a $4000 they probably will not notice. If it is a live band playing the difference will be even less.

Not that I dislike my audience for that reason: they come to have a good time and that good time does not come from the quality of a synth ... maybe they might hear 'some' difference, but probably not.
Well, i can speak from my own expiriense. I am more studio musician so i speand more in recording proces then on live shows and i have some friends and some of them were in my house and befor that thay were really happy with their music audio system at their houses, because most of them had some conventional 5.1 audio sytem at home which thay bought in the lockal shop for about 868 dollars, but all my friends that i invited in to my house and i gived them to listen to my Sennheizers HD 800 thrue my RME Fireface UFX interface they were blowed out by the sound thay hear. All of them after listening to my audio eqipment instantly wanted to get a loan to buy the same headphones and the same audiointerface. But i even don't want to dissapoint them that there is even better equipment then i own myself and i have at home , because in the studio i work, thay have Metric Halo ULN 8 audio interface and Genelec 8250A monitors and some also top of the line monitors from PMC(don't remember the model name)....

I immediately believe you that your friends will hear the difference in such high end monitor system or headphones. I was more talking about a live band where the difference is less. Also since your friends liked your equipment they probably are into music more than average people (you have good friends!).

michelkeijzers · Post by **michelkeijzers** » Sun Jan 22, 2012 8:40 pm

JPWC wrote:I am a keyboard player, and I need the experience of playing the keyboard live, while being able to reach for various controllers and other keyboards, at will. Computer VST's just don't provide this experience.

Good music is more than the tools used to produce it. A good artist can produce great music in their environment, regardless of the tools. Technical sound quality, which is subjective to the individual, is not the determining factor in musical appeal.

But don't get me wrong, high technical specifications are fun and interesting.

PS. computers are for watching DVD's and storing files. They are giant time sinks, that produce little results for the efforts. The biggest problem artistically is the lack of creative constraints, which gives limits for the the artist to work from, i.e. a set of rules, that once learned can be broken.

I don't know if I fully will go with your PS part (although most is true) but the rest is really recognizable.

I also like to buy something new every now and then for the fun factor, and of course for the better sound and the easier UI.

With a computer you first have to install parts or set up things, on a hardware synth you can start right away.

Comrad_Durandal · Post by **Comrad_Durandal** » Wed Aug 01, 2012 7:03 pm

JPWC wrote:Aren't you being a little offensive? The Yamaha Motif XF is a good sounding keyboard with many desireable features. Some believe the Motif excels with guitar sounds ( I tend to agree with this as I find myself play guitar sounds on the Motif almost exclusively.)

The Motif series is the keyboard behind many a hit.

Maybe you should chill. sorry just had to say it, Chilly.

The biggest problem I've seen with the Motif series, it's long steep learning curve and dis-orgranized manual.

VST's are computer programs to run on computers, great tools for studio producers, Keyboards/synths are instruments designed for musicians who should have taken a few piano lessons and are ready to perform.

.

Chilly is a semi-regular 'agitator' on Motifactor, so I have basically learned to completely ignore the guy, personally.