Newbie questions

rob0214 · Post by **rob0214** » Tue Jan 17, 2012 8:34 am

Hi all,

I've had my Triton for a while, just never really delved into some of the more advanced things. Just played it with tweaking a few parameters. So, I'm not a total newbie

Anyway, I had a couple of questions if someone could help me answer:

1) is there a parameter editor/librarian for the Triton? I'd prefer a ProTools plug in so I can do it on a session by session basis. I've seen MidiQuest and Unisyn, but I was hoping for something a little cheaper (or free). I'm also running Mac OSX 10.6, so Unisyn is out anyway.

2) i've seen all the various PCG files available. Is there any tool (possibly combined with #1 above) that can load them via Midi SysEx instead of disk? Looking at the SysEx implementation, it seems like it shouldn't be very hard to do. It would also let me just have the files on my Mac to upload on demand.

3) Is there that much of a performance difference in upgrading the memory?

I probably will have more questions, but that's all I can think of for right now

-- Rob

michelkeijzers · Post by **michelkeijzers** » Tue Jan 17, 2012 9:17 am

1. You can use Aldan Library / Muse Tools or PCG Tools (see more info in my signature).

2. Aldan Library works with Sysex. However sometimes using PCG files can be easier (i.e. to copy from one PCG to another).

3. If you mean the synth works fast: no. Memory is only used for storing samples.

rob0214 · Post by **rob0214** » Tue Jan 17, 2012 11:26 pm

michelkeijzers wrote:1. You can use Aldan Library / Muse Tools or PCG Tools (see more info in my signature).

2. Aldan Library works with Sysex. However sometimes using PCG files can be easier (i.e. to copy from one PCG to another).

3. If you mean the synth works fast: no. Memory is only used for storing samples.

Aldan doesn't appear to support the Triton, and they're both Windows programs

Yes, I know I can run Parallels/Wine, etc. I saw the thread where it was discussing why Mac users don't want to do that. Personally, I don't care which OS I run (I run Windows, Linux, and OSX). It's just that given how finicky DAWs can be, I'd rather not have the resources taken away/the possibility of a crash during a session.

I know Pro Tools (and most DAWs probably) can record SysEx messages. I wonder if there's a way to load a PCG, and have the Triton dump the equivalent SysEx message. I know I've done something like that with a Midi Sniffer with other gear to load patches.

michelkeijzers · Post by **michelkeijzers** » Tue Jan 17, 2012 11:53 pm

rob0214 wrote:
michelkeijzers wrote:1. You can use Aldan Library / Muse Tools or PCG Tools (see more info in my signature).

2. Aldan Library works with Sysex. However sometimes using PCG files can be easier (i.e. to copy from one PCG to another).

3. If you mean the synth works fast: no. Memory is only used for storing samples.
Aldan doesn't appear to support the Triton, and they're both Windows programs

Yes, I know I can run Parallels/Wine, etc. I saw the thread where it was discussing why Mac users don't want to do that. Personally, I don't care which OS I run (I run Windows, Linux, and OSX). It's just that given how finicky DAWs can be, I'd rather not have the resources taken away/the possibility of a crash during a session.

I know Pro Tools (and most DAWs probably) can record SysEx messages. I wonder if there's a way to load a PCG, and have the Triton dump the equivalent SysEx message. I know I've done something like that with a Midi Sniffer with other gear to load patches.

Yes sorry you are right about Aldan Librarian.

Someone is busy with porting PCG Tools to an internet application which also should run on a Mac but he just started and has limited features yet in comparison with PCG Tools.

rob0214 · Post by **rob0214** » Wed Jan 18, 2012 4:28 am

michelkeijzers wrote:
rob0214 wrote:
michelkeijzers wrote:1. You can use Aldan Library / Muse Tools or PCG Tools (see more info in my signature).

2. Aldan Library works with Sysex. However sometimes using PCG files can be easier (i.e. to copy from one PCG to another).

3. If you mean the synth works fast: no. Memory is only used for storing samples.
Aldan doesn't appear to support the Triton, and they're both Windows programs

Yes, I know I can run Parallels/Wine, etc. I saw the thread where it was discussing why Mac users don't want to do that. Personally, I don't care which OS I run (I run Windows, Linux, and OSX). It's just that given how finicky DAWs can be, I'd rather not have the resources taken away/the possibility of a crash during a session.

I know Pro Tools (and most DAWs probably) can record SysEx messages. I wonder if there's a way to load a PCG, and have the Triton dump the equivalent SysEx message. I know I've done something like that with a Midi Sniffer with other gear to load patches.
Yes sorry you are right about Aldan Librarian.

Someone is busy with porting PCG Tools to an internet application which also should run on a Mac but he just started and has limited features yet in comparison with PCG Tools.

Doesn't help with SysEx dumps though, I imagine

I'll go see if I can figure out another way.

But, let me back up first. Looking at the Triton SysEx documentation, it can be given:

Code: Select all


(2) CURRENT PROGRAM PARAMETER DUMP REQUEST                              R
        F0, 42, 3b, 50          Excl Header
        10                      Function
        00                      Reserved
        F7                      End of Excl
(Receives this message, and transmits Func=40 or Func=24 message)

(11) PROGRAM WRITE REQUEST                                              R
        F0, 42, 3g, 50          Excl Header
        11                      Function
        0000 0bbb               Write Program Bank      (*4)
        0ppp pppp               Write Program No.
        F7                      End of Excl
(Receives this message, write the data and transmits Func=21 or Func=22
message)

Is this data the same that is contained in a PCG file? Or is that just the parameters, not the underlying samples?

michelkeijzers · Post by **michelkeijzers** » Wed Jan 18, 2012 9:38 am

Samples are not contained in the PCG nor in the SYSEX messages.

A PCG file contains generally all programs/combis/global info (or a selected part of it).

Sysex messages only receive or sends a small portion.

Both have advantages/disadvantages.
Sysex messages advantages:
- public format (i.e. not proprietary)
- directly changed in the synth

PCG advantages:
- Access of multiple PCG files (depending on app's features)
- No synth needed

rob0214 · Post by **rob0214** » Wed Jan 18, 2012 11:22 pm

Ah, ok, I think a lightbulb went on in my head.

Samples are the base sounds, either factory installed or user installed.

Programs are lists of samples used + oscillators + adjustments (ie filters, EQ, envelopes, etc).

Combinations are groupings of multiple programs assigned to various keys.

PCG files are sort of like all the programs/combinations used.

I was getting confused because the downloads had things like emulated piano, LE sounds, etc. They are actually using existing samples (unless KSF/KSC files are included).

Am I correct?

Also, what do you mean, no synth required for PCGs? Do you mean to edit them? If there's no samples, how can you play them back?

michelkeijzers · Post by **michelkeijzers** » Thu Jan 19, 2012 12:05 am

rob0214 wrote:Ah, ok, I think a lightbulb went on in my head.

Samples are the base sounds, either factory installed or user installed.

Programs are lists of samples used + oscillators + adjustments (ie filters, EQ, envelopes, etc).

Combinations are groupings of multiple programs assigned to various keys.

PCG files are sort of like all the programs/combinations used.

I was getting confused because the downloads had things like emulated piano, LE sounds, etc. They are actually using existing samples (unless KSF/KSC files are included).

Am I correct?

Also, what do you mean, no synth required for PCGs? Do you mean to edit them? If there's no samples, how can you play them back?

Yes you are right:
PCG contains Programs, Combi and Global info, meaning all the PARAMETERS (you can edit) on the synth.

The KSF/KSC contains the samples and sample parameters (I think), I haven't analyzed them (yet).

With 'no synth required' for PCG files I mean I can load in my app several PCGs, also from synths I do not own. I can extract info or change settings, but of course I cannot listen to them. For that I need to copy the PCG file to the (correct model) synth.

SanderXpander · Post by **SanderXpander** » Thu Jan 19, 2012 6:41 am

I'm pretty sure the Triton itself can already dump a program over sysex that you can record in Protools and play back later. Just don't remember where from - the global page, perhaps? I can have a look tomorrow if I remember.

If the main thing you're worried about is editing and retaining the correct patches for your project, that's really all you need. Just need to do the actual editing from the Triton itself.

rob0214 · Post by **rob0214** » Fri Jan 20, 2012 5:34 am

Hmm, I'm starting to see why people replace out the floppy drive. Just finding a computer that download and write the patches to floppy can be a challenge.

As for editor/librarian functionality, I've been looking at http://sourceforge.net/projects/jsynthlib/

(and it's associated docs at http://jsynthlib.wikispaces.com/

Looks like it would be a pretty large effort to make a Triton editor given the sheer number of parameters.