What does KARMA mean for you?

QuiRobinez · Post by **QuiRobinez** » Wed Dec 12, 2012 10:24 am

Simur asked an excellent question in another thread which i thought could deserve a seperate thread. He asked;
Could you explain what Karma gives to you? Does it help you composing? Improvising? Having fun?

I hear these kind of questions often, KARMA seems to be an undiscovered area in the kronos by much people. Most musicians use it as a standard arpeggiator tool but are hearing people like me saying that it's so much more then just a basic arpeggiator.

For me KARMA is best described as an endless Inspirational device. When i use KARMA it constantly gives me great ideas for my tracks. I never use the patterns in a track, but KARMA gives me the possibility to think outside my own comfort zone and that way i create new patterns i never would have thought of without KARMA.

Of course i also use KARMA just for playing arrangements whenever i want to have fun. KARMA can do that quite well because it gives you 4 modules to assign to your virtual band members (like drums, bass, guitar, etc).

But the main purpose of KARMA for me is: Inspiration

So what does KARMA mean for you?

AlchemistMusicStudio · Wed Dec 12, 2012 10:28 am

- Composing – YES! See below:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWBB7fHNcN4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9RZU8fq ... vA&index=8

- Improvising – YES! See below:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixrwbZVj ... vA&index=1

- Having Fun – YES! See below:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m21XhvxC ... A&index=25

KARMA is a great arpeggiators (+ advanced editing and control). This is a powerful dose of musical inspiration.

michelkeijzers · Post by **michelkeijzers** » Wed Dec 12, 2012 11:31 am

For me it's more fun, like playing along or solo with it.
On stage I never use it.

Diego5150 · Post by **Diego5150** » Wed Dec 12, 2012 11:32 am

I find it to be very inspirational, fun and sometimes frustrating as well. The frustration will subside as I learn more about how to make adjustments. Overall though it is a very good tool.

Francois · Post by **Francois** » Wed Dec 12, 2012 11:32 am

KARMA

Kick Ass Resourceful Music Assistant

Vlad_77 · Post by **Vlad_77** » Wed Dec 12, 2012 12:27 pm

I love KARMA even though at times I have no clue what I am doing - which is part of the fun. I DO hope Korg and Stephen Kay can come to some terms so that Karma 3.0 can be developed for Kronos. No offense intended but it bothers me that the XF ROMpler is getting new KARMA love but the infinitely more powerful Kronos is not.

Sparker · Post by **Sparker** » Wed Dec 12, 2012 12:28 pm

Indeed a good question.

The inclusion of KARMA 2.0 was one of my main reasons for getting the Kronos. I'd discovered it (KARMA) when I got my Triton (Version 1 software) and found it a lot harder to understand and work with than version 2.0.

What I loved about it was digging into the configurations and figuring out what was going on in the program as I would discover things both musically and MIDI-wise that would give me some idea of how various genres and 'classic' sounds (i.e. the 'Won't Get Fooled Again' type programs) were put together.

I find myself getting lost for hours exploring the variations possible without going beyond the KARMA sets, so yes fun & inspirational, but also an intricate puzzle to be solved and applied.

It's like it is a musical discipline in itself and as many have said in other threads it has a steep learning curve. My aim has been to run both the Triton and Kronos software synched together to see if I can create setups running 10 modules in the same 'program' (Why? - Because it's there

), however I'm still waiting for the learning curve to plateau out ...

Because KARMA is so complex it's daunting when first encountered and while I do think that version 2.0 is a lot more learner friendly, I also think a 'KARMA for Dummies' guide would be useful - explaining in non-tech terms how to do the simple stuff that standard arppegiators do. (I know there are lots of documents on KARMA-lab wiki and explanations here on the forum - but even the beginners guides can be hard work to understand from a non tech point of view - I say this having tried to explain what it is that KARMA does, to friends who have done 'music technology' diplomas/courses and who are MIDI-tech savvy, and it's not easy to explain the full potential, (at least not within the contemporary attention span of homo-modernicus-connectictus)

QuiRobinez · Post by **QuiRobinez** » Wed Dec 12, 2012 12:53 pm

Sparker wrote:I also think a 'KARMA for Dummies' guide would be useful - explaining in non-tech terms how to do the simple stuff that standard arppegiators do. (I know there are lots of documents on KARMA-lab wiki and explanations here on the forum - but even the beginners guides can be hard work to understand from a non tech point of view

did you see my introduction to KARMA video on my channel? This was intended to introduce beginners to standard KARMA arps.

Maybe it was too hard to understand, but i'm interested in your remarks about it as a learning experience for me, what i could have explained better

SoundsOfPlanet · Post by **SoundsOfPlanet** » Wed Dec 12, 2012 2:38 pm

Apart of the fact, that making the combinations is my business, I also think that such combinations are excellent material for a new song. You just select a combination, paste it to the sequencer or DAW – record additional parts and solo and within just a few moments you have ready song. This is really amazing thing for the musicians. However I find the biggest pleasure in creating a new combination – it is possible to make really great stuff even from a simple riff.

simur · Post by **simur** » Wed Dec 12, 2012 2:43 pm

That's it! Thanks Qui for this tread...

I share the same feelings about Karma... For me more or less is a similar to the entire Kronos: it is very inspiring tool, makes things / plays patterns that I would never play by myself and I have fun when I play alone but the main frustration that it is hard to learn and to recreate something in my mind...

Sparker · Post by **Sparker** » Wed Dec 12, 2012 2:59 pm

Hi Qui: I've watched (and downloaded) all your video's which I think are excellent.

I've just rewatched the first two that deal with KARMA (it took me 30 minutes; where I had to stop/rewind to ensure I'd read and understood & watched what you were doing) - thats' not a crit - it's just in the nature of video tutorials. It's interesting the difference between the 'beginner level' in Video 1 and the 'intermediate level' in Video 2, in terms of how easy it is to take in the information.

Now I consider that I know my KARMA to intermediate level so the 1st video was easy to follow & understand without having to replay any parts

Video 2 is a different matter - I have to stop and check that I have understood what you are imparting. Again not a crit - see 1st sentence above.

Video's are great for showing how to do something, the accompanying text is good for explaining what you are doing (and sometimes why) - on other hand I like being able to examine and compare reference charts and parameter details - which isn't possible on a video - thus my 'KARMA for Dummies' remark.

Before I stopped working, my 'field of expertise' was 'teaching and learning' so this topic is of great interest to me ...

best regards
Simon

Ksynth · Post by **Ksynth** » Wed Dec 12, 2012 3:10 pm

For me Karma just provides a very enjoyable way to explore ideas. There are so many ways to tweak combis especially. I like to change the tempo sometimes drastically as one way to start something different.

There are people who are quite familiar with Karma and I admire that but I can settle for a few hours of distracted tinkering.

NuSkoolTone · Post by **NuSkoolTone** » Wed Dec 12, 2012 3:15 pm

To ME: It's a closed down system in DEMO mode of canned phrases which you must pay $179 (?) to get an editor to do anything useful or ORIGINAL on it.

QuiRobinez · Post by **QuiRobinez** » Wed Dec 12, 2012 3:15 pm

Sparker wrote: I've just rewatched the first two that deal with KARMA (it took me 30 minutes; where I had to stop/rewind to ensure I'd read and understood & watched what you were doing) - thats' not a crit - it's just in the nature of video tutorials. It's interesting the difference between the 'beginner level' in Video 1 and the 'intermediate level' in Video 2, in terms of how easy it is to take in the information.

Now I consider that I know my KARMA to intermediate level so the 1st video was easy to follow & understand without having to replay any parts

Video 2 is a different matter - I have to stop and check that I have understood what you are imparting. Again not a crit - see 1st sentence above.

thanks sparker for your remarks, i really appreciate it.

Video 1 was intended for people that never looked at KARMA, video 2 was intended for intermediate level KARMA users where i show some of the basics of programming KARMA modules.

I create videos without voice including text so that people can watch it one time, then replay it and pause the video at each step and try to do it theirselves.

One of the main criticism i've got on the first two tutorials was that people couldn't read the screen due to the letters, and they were totally right, that's why i changed the position of the text to the right side in the next tutorials.

But it's always good to know what people like and don't like so i can use these remarks to improve the tutorials.

I've scheduled some extra KARMA tutorials for the first quarter of 2013, so these kind of threads about KARMA are a great source of info of how people use KARMA. Video 2 was already to complicated for most people so i have to start things more slowly, because i was under the impression that video 2 was still an introduction to more advanced programming of KARMA. There so much more possible then shown in that video.

Shakil · Post by **Shakil** » Wed Dec 12, 2012 3:23 pm

NuSkoolTone wrote:To ME: It's a closed down system in DEMO mode of canned phrases which you must pay $179 (?) to get an editor to do anything useful or ORIGINAL on it.

IMHO, it is worth every penny of that $179.